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Thread: 410 saiga to rifled barrel an brass cases.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Smile 410 saiga to rifled barrel an brass cases.

    OK I know I have sugested the idea of takinga stock 410 Saiga an adding a rifled barrel in .410 an useing brass 410 shells in 2.5" and then seating .410 calibur bullets or slugs out of the case like a rifle round. it would be very simular to the 444 marlin but with more case capacity and would/shpuld use a standard Saiga 410 3" mag . this would avoid the mag issue Tony at Tromix had on his 444 marlin conversion. ( there was a thread on this from when I had the idea a few years back when I was working on the still on the back burner 444????? and the 444 rimless marlin.)

    ANY HOW i GOT A BUG UP MY BUTT TODAY AND STARTED RESEARCHING RILFED 410 BARRELS AND FOUND THIS VERY INTERESTING SITE THAT MAKES BARRELS AND AMMO FOR A THOMPSON CONTENDERS. THEY SHOW AROUND ALMOST EXACTLY LIKE IM TALKING ABOUT.

    THIS SHOULD BE A SIMPLE REBARREL OF A 410 SAGIA JUST IT WOULD HAVE TO STAY 18" TO BE LEGAL.

    HERE IS THE SITE LOOK AT THE AMMO OFFERINGS AND THE GROUPS. THEY SHOW A PRETTY COOL MAUSER BUILD AS WILL. THEY AHAVE LOADING INFO WITH SPEEDS AND ENERGY CALCULATIONS AND THERE ABOUT WHAT I FIGURED.

    THEY SHOW RELOADING DIES AND SPECAIL CRIMPERS ECT.

    NO THEY DONT MAKE A BARREL FOR A SAIGA BUT THEY DO LIST WHO MAKES BARRELS FOR THEM. THERE CHAMBER IS PROPIETARY BUT IT CANT BE THAT HARD TO FIGURE OUT AND OPTIMISE FOR THE ROUND iD WANT.

    HERE IS THE LINK I NEED A 410 RIFLED BARREL THEIS NEED TO BE BUILT. sAIGA 410,S ARE REASONABLY CHEAP WITH BARRELLESS KITS IN THE $350 RANGE THESE DAYS. RE-RECIVER A DEMILLED SAIGA AND YOU COULD MAKE A PISTOL OUT OF ONE OF THESE IF THE BARREL IS RIFLED.

    LINK
    Home of America's Finest Custom .410 Bore Slug Barrels

    THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN. AND IT WONT WRECK YOU GUN IF YOU KEEPO THE OLD BARREL.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    HERE IS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT THIS IS FROM THERE SITE. I HOPE THIS IS OK.

    THERE DOING MOSTLY PLASTIC SHELLS APARENTLY AND DONT SHOW THERE BRASS CASES FOR SALE THESE ARE 3" BUT A 2.5 VERSION SHOULD WORK BEST OR A TRIMMED DOWN 3" TO FIT THE MAG. THEY SHOW NON CRIMPED AND HEAT CRIMPED VERSIONS. THESE THINGS ARE EQUIL OR BETTER THAN A 45-70 ACCORDING TO THERE PAGE

    THIS GUN NEEDS TO BE BUILT AND I HAVE A 410 SAIGA SITING HERE DOING NOTHING. BAD NEWS IS WI DONT ALLOW 410,S ON DEER.

    A NO RIMMED RIFLE VERSION WOULD BE EASY AND JSUT CAL IT A RIFLE.
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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    LINK TO THE BOLT ACTOIN SHOOTING 3" SHELLS THATS ANICE GUN AN GROUP.

    The Wild .410 Bore Slug Gun

    I contacted match grade machine who apparently only build barrels for thompsons so maybe they dont do there own blanks.

    now after thinking a minute would the bore for a 41 magnum or 41 rifle be any differant???????????????? I wonder what his 410 slugs are in diamiter. HMMMMMMMMMM mAYBE A 410 BARREL BLANK IS NOT SO HARD TO DO.

    OK IT LOOKS LIKE PER THERE ADD THAT MCGOWEN MAKES BARRELS FOR MATCH GRADE MACHINE.

    AT ANY RATE ONE OF THESE BARREL IN 41 AN UP SHOULD WORK THERE ARE 3 CHOICES THSAT ARE ONLY THOUSANDS APART. AND $165 FOR A GOOD BLANK IS NOT TO BAD. TWIST OPTIONS AS WELL.

    Chrome Moly Rifle/Pistol Barrels


    THEY ALSO SHOW A A .310 BARREL AND A MATCH 7.62X39 CHAMBER HMMMMM

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    Well, why not? Others have gone drunk the Kool-Aid and it tasted just fine!

    Shotgunworld.com • View topic - 410 Rifled Slug Gun Project

    I think there's a sub-thread about a ".410 From Hell" in the long 12gaFH thread on Accurate Reloading, too.

    And there's a page from a .410 nut in England that Google can't seem to be persuaded into retrieving at the moment...

    I don't know that the ballistics are supposed to be on a stock .410, but the 3" Winchester shell I cut apart had a .40-caliber, 100 grain bullet that was completely hollow like a thimble. I was so underwhelmed I dismissed the .410 from consideration for a long time... but, of course, you don't have to reload to stock specs.

    Keep this project up, and I might have to blow the dust off my Romanian .410 conversion!

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    IF 2.5 BRASS CASES WERE USED THERE IS NO REASON YOU CASNT LOAD TO 444 MARLIN PRESSURES AND THAT WOULD YEILD BASICALY A RIFLE ROUND THAT WOULD EXCEDE THE 444MARLIN SLIGHTLY.

    RIMLESS BRASS CAN BE MADE FROM 30-06 OR SIMULAR. AND THAT WOULD ALLOW THE USE OF STANDARD BOLT OPENED UP IF YOU WANTED TO BUILD ON A X39 KIT. JUST COPY THE PROFILE OF A 410 BARREL WITHT HE SHROUD AND USE 410 MAGS. SHOULD BE PRETTY EASY THAT WOULD ALSO MAKE IT A RIFLE AND YOU COULD HAVE A 16" BARREL YOU WOULD HAVE TO HEAD SPACE ON THE CASE MOUTH. THE 444 RIMLESS MARLIN MIGHT BE BETTER BECASE OF THE CASE TAPER FRO FEEDING AN EXTRACTION BUT IT WILL BE HARDER IN BRASS PREP AND MAKING A MAG WORK.

    I LIKE THE ABILITY TO USE PLASTIC SG HULLS AND LOAD IT CHEAP AND ALSO STILL USE FACTORY 410 SHELLS. THE THERMO CRIMP THEY SELL WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE.

    MY BIGGEST ISSUE IS A 410 sg CANT BE USED FOR DEER IN WISCONSIN EVEN THOUGH THEY ALLOW PISTOLS IN MUCH WEAKER CALIBURS. SO IF I BUILT IT I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HUNT WITH IT EVEN IF IT WAS BETTER THAN A 444 MARLIN AN EQUIL TO A 45-70. ONE THOUGHT WAS TO USE BLOWN OUT 444 MARLIN BRASS TO 410 SPECS AND JSUT CALL IT A 444MARLIN IMPROVED AN CALL IT A RIFLE. ONLY ISSUE IS IF THEY REALLY LOOKED THE RECIVER IS A 410 SHOT GUN. ITS A GRAY AREA AS THERE ARE SHOT GUN RECIVERS THAT ALSO SERVE DUTY AS RIFLES. ITS THE ROUND THAT WOULD MATTER AN IF I USED 444 MARLIN CASES IT WOULD SAY 444 MARLIN ONTHE CASE. hmmmmmmmmm MAYBE MAKE THE RIFLE VERSION SO IT WONT FIT IN A SHOT GUN CHMBER.

    EITHER WAY IT WOULD BE A EASY BUILD. THE BARREL WOULD BE A LITTLE TRICKY DUE THE SHROUD BUT ITS NOT THAT HARD I DONT THINK.

    WERE CAN I FIND 2.5" 410 SAIGA MAGS. MINE IS 3" AND YOU NEED 2.5 MAGS TO SHOOT THE SHORTER SHELL (i THINK) ID LIKE TO LOAD UP SOME 410 BRASS CASES WITH NORMAL SLUGS AND SEE HOW THEY FEED AND THEN SOME WITH THE SLUG/BULLET LOADED OUT LIKE A RIFLE ROUND. i NEED TO GET SOME BRASS CASED OR MAYBE FIRE FORM SOME 444 MARLIN BRASS IN MY GUN AND PLAY A LITTLE.

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    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
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    WERE CAN I FIND 2.5" 410 SAIGA MAGS. MINE IS 3" AND YOU NEED 2.5 MAGS TO SHOOT THE SHORTER SHELL (i THINK)
    I don't know, but if you find any 2.5" mags let me know after you get yours, all I've seen are the 3".

    Also if you do try to use the 3" mags, you'll most likely have to make the overall length of the round 2 3/4"-3", those Wolf slugs & buck shot steel cased 410s are a little longer then 2 1/2" but shorter then 3" and they feed in my 410, but a 2 1/2" plastic hulled shell won't.
    If you haven't tried a 2 1/2" yet, try to cycle one and you'll see where it hangs up, if you make the round longer I think it will work.
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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    those Wolf slugs & buck shot steel cased 410s are a little longer then 2 1/2" but shorter then 3" and they feed in my 410, but a 2 1/2" plastic hulled shell won't.
    If you haven't tried a 2 1/2" yet, try to cycle one and you'll see where it hangs up, if you make the round longer I think it will work.
    HEY GOOD TO KNOW THEY WORK IN A 3" MAGAZINE. I WASENT SURE. iHAVE TRED THE STANDARD PLASTIC 2.5 SHELLS AND KNOW THEY DID NOT.

    I WAS THINKING ABOUT THOSE STEEL CASED ROUNDS AND WAS THINKING ONE MIGHT BE ABLE TO PULL THE SLUGS AND SHOT AND RELAOD THEM WITH BULLETS SEATED OUT AND A BETTER POWDER CHARGE THAT WOULD STILL BE SAFE IN A SAIGA. THOSE CASES BEING LONGER WOULD ALSO GIVE MORE CASE CAPACITY FOR MORE POWER.

    PLASTIC HULLS ARE NOT THAT PRICY AND IF THOSE NON CRIMPED LOADS ABOVE WOULD FEED WITH OUT MOVING THE SLUG WHEN GOING INTOT HE BARREL THEY WOULD BE CHEAP TO LOAD. iM BETTING A CRIMP OF SOME SORT WOULD BE NEEDED IN A AUTO LOADER.

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    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
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    Yeah that pissed me off last summer, I bought a couple boxes of 2.5" shells and found out they didn't feed when I went to the range, so I had a single shot semi auto

    If you get those steel cased ones, you might want to fire one and check the wall thickness before just loading one up, I think it would work but I'd want to know how it's made first. The main thing I'd worry about is the case head seperating, I'm sure the rest of it will be fine in the barrel.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    IM KIND OF THINKING 444 MARLIN BRASS MIGHT BE THE WAY TO GO. JUST BLOW IT STRAIGHT AN THEN LOAD IT. i READ SOME WERE THE MAG TEC 410 BRASS WAS BALLON CASE AN UNDER 2.5" I DONT NEED A 3" SHELL i JUST NEED IT TO FEED IN A 3" MAG.

    I DONT KNOW WHY TONY FROM TROMIX 444 MARLIN DID NOT FEED AND THERE IS NOT MUCH TAPER IF ANY IN A 444 SO IM NOT SURE IM DOING ANYTHING THAT A 444 WONT DO AND WILL STILL HAVE FEED ISSUES. NOW THE 3" PLASTIC SHELLS WITH A HEAT CRIMP MIGHT BE A DIFFERANT MATTER IF THEY WERE CUT DOWN SO THEY WOULD FIT IN THE MAG. THERE MAY BE MORE TO THIS THAN MEETS THE EYE. ID FIORST NEED TO SEE WHY A 444 JAMS. (LIKELY ITS SHORT LENGTH IN A 3" MAG)

    THEY DID MAKE 2.5 SAIGA MAGS AT ONE TIME CORRECT???????????????????????????

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    I'm guessing but this might be why he was having feed issues with the 444
    Case length
    2.250 in (57.2 mm)
    Overall length
    2.55 in (65 mm)
    The overall length might be what was causing it? I think it needs to be more closer to 2.75, closer to 3" would be even better.



    THEY DID MAKE 2.5 SAIGA MAGS AT ONE TIME CORRECT???????????????????????????
    I'm sure they did, many years ago (4 or 5 actually) I know I saw two sizes of the 4 round factory mags on ebay, but the one was double the price. Sorry don't remember the details anymore.
    I did a google search and only found 3" mags.

    ProMag has the 30 round drum out now, these two places have them for $100, seen mixed reviews though, most were positive but a few had feed issues.
    <b>SAIGA 410</b> 30RD DRUM
    Saiga 410 Gauge 30 Round Drum - Promag [SAI-A9] - $99.95 : Mississippi Auto Arms, Inc ::, Your Source for Saiga, AK47, AR15, Tromix, Glock, and SKS firearms and accessories
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

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