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Thread: 220 & 6mm BEGGS ON A AK47 BOLT

  1. #1
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Default 220 & 6mm BEGGS ON A AK47 BOLT

    OK AFTER RELIZING IM NEEDING MORE SPEED AN HEAIVER BULLLETS FOR MY VARMINT AK I WAS LOOKING HARD AT A 6MM-223 ITS A GOOD ROUND BUT IT REALLY DOES NOT ADDRESS THE SPEED I WANT ESPECAILY WITH HEAVIER BULLETS. SO I STARTED LOOKING AT WHAT I COULD DO IN NORMAL AK LENGTH MAG WELL OR CLOSE TO ONE. I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED TO DO A NECKED DOWN 7.62X39 WILD CAT IN 6,6.5,OR 7MM. THE X39 CASE IS 35.6 CAPIACITY VS 31.4 OF THE 223. THE EXTRA 4+ GRAINS WOULD REALLY HELP. SO I GOT TO LOOKING AT WHAT WAS ALREADY OUT THERE AND CAME ACROSS THE 22 AN 6MM BEGGS, IT IS SIMPLY A 220 RUSSIAN NECKED UP AND HAS A SHARPER TRANSISTION FROM NECK TO SHOULDER TO PREVENT BRASS STRETCH. ITS A SIMPLE ONE PASS THROUGH A DIE THAT IS ALREADY MADE BY HORNADY. THE CASE TAPER REMAINS THE SAME AS DOES THE CASE CAPIACTY OF THE 220 RUSSIAN. THIS MEANS IT WILL STACK PROPERLY ION A STANDARD X39 MAG!

    THERE ARE REAMERS ALREADY OUT THERE FOR BOTH THE 22 AN 6MM VERSIONS IN NECK TURN AN NO NECK TURN. THE ROUND REVOLVES AROUND 220 RUSSAIN BRASS FROM LAPUA AND ITS EXPENSIVE.

    SO THE NEXT QUESTION IS CAN YOU NECK DOWN STANDARD CHEAP WINCHESTER 7.62X39 BRASS???? IT APEARS YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO AS MANY GUYS MAKE 6MM PPC OUT OF X39 BRASS.

    BTW THESE ROUNDS HAVE SET SEVERAL NATIONAL BENCH REST RECORDS BEATING THE PPC ROUNDS. GENE BEGGS IS WELL KNOW BUILDER INOVATER AND SHOOTER. I SPENT MOST OF THE NIGHT READIN HIS THREADS ON THE BENCH REST BOARDS. HE EVEN HAS A 100 YARD TUNNEL TO TEST HIS STUFF. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST ACCURATE ROUNDS IN THE WORLD AN ITS BASED ON THE PARENT ROUND OF OUR X39.

    THESE ROUNDS BEAT THE 223 AN 6MM-223 BY AT LEAST 200FPS FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN BASED ON LOAD INFO. AT WHAT PRESSURES I HAVE NO IDEA BUT 4 GRAINS OF POWDER IS GOING TO HELP. IT WOULD ALSO BE A BETTER DEER ROUND ALTHOUGH A LITTLE ON THE LIGHT SIDE STILL

    THESE COULD BE A SIMPLE REPBARREL ON A AK OR A GREAT WAY TO MAKE A BARRELES KIT REALLY SPECIAL.

    THE DOWNSIDE IS ITS LOT MORE TO LOAD DIES ARE ABOUT $150 BUT THERE BENCH REST QUALITY AND X39 BRASS IS MORE THAN 223 BRASS ESPECIALY IF YOU USE USED MILITARY. THE UPSIDE IS THE 220 RUSSIAN BRASS FROM LUPIA IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD. IF YOU WANT TO DO A TRUE TARGET AK ITS THE BEST BET. YOU CAN STILL USE 7.62X39 BRASS FOR CHEAPER SHOOTING.

    MY FIRST QUESTION WOULD BE WHAT WOULD THE NECK DIA COME IN AT ON NECKED DOWN WINCHESTER OR OTHER BRASS VS NECKED UP 220 RUSSIAN??? WILL THE STANDARD NO TURN NECK REAMER STILL WORK?? OR WILL I NEED TO INSIDE NECK REAM X39 BRASS OR SOME THING. THE 220 RUSSIAN BRASS IS SUSPOSED TO LAST OVER 35 LOADS SO IT GETS CHEAPER IF YOU CAN FIND ALL OF IT.

    IF AN WHEN i GET BACK ON MY FEET FINACIALY I MAY GET THE DIES FIRST AND SEE WHAT CAN BE DONE TO NECK DOWN X39 BRASS AND WHAT THE NECK WOULD BE LIKE. I CAN THEN DETERMINE IF I WOULD NEED A SPECAIL REAMER CUT KEEPING IN MIND THAT THE ORIGINAL DESIGN IS A VERY TIGHT BENCH REST SET UP AND MAY BE TO TIGHT ALREADY FOR A AUTO LOADER. THE REAMER COSTS ABOUT THE SAME IF YOU HAVE IT DONE SPECIAL. ALSO I NEED TO SEE WHAT WOULD NEED TO BE DONE TO SHOOT THE 6MM 115 GRAIN BULLETS AS THIS ROUND SEEMS TO BE DESIGNED FOR 65-70 GRAIN STUFF FOR 300 YARD BENCH REST. THE OVERALL LENGTH MAY BE A ISSUE AS WELL.

    I DO KNOW I HAVE A PILE OF 243 TAKE OFF BARRELS THAT COULD BE ADE INTO A 6MM BEGGS PRETTY CHEAP FOR A STANDARD PROFILE AK BARREL BUILD

    HERE IS A LINK TO SOME OF HIS GUNS AND A LOOK AT THE ROUND.

    Beggs Develops Radical Rigs in West Texas Tunnel « Daily Bulletin

    OH YEA THE 22 VERSION IS A LOT FASTER THAN A 223 AN WOULD BE A BARREL SWAP ONLY. WANT TO REALLY PISS OF SOME AR GUYS SHOW UP WITH ONE OF THERSE WITH GOOD AMMO AN A 250 FPS ADVANTAGE

  2. #2
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    McGowin Shoots 300-yard Record Group « Daily Bulletin

    A LITTLE MORE ON THE ROUND AN THE RECORD IT HOLDS

  3. #3
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    Sounds like a helluva idea Biggun. I say go for it.
    Enforcement, NOT Amnesty!!!!!!

    "If they’re going to come here illegally, apply for & receive assistance through a corrupted Government agency encouraging this lawless behavior, work under the table & send billions of dollars each year back to their families in Mexico, while bleeding local economies dry, protest in our streets waving their Mexican flags DEMANDING rights, while I have to press ’1′ for English, then they need to be shipped back to where they came from!" -Chad Miller

  4. #4
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    ITS NOT CHEAP TO GET STARTED. A REAMER IS GOING TO BE ABOUT $150 THE DIES AN SEATER ARE ABOUT $150 OR SO. I DONT HAVE $300 TO SPEND TO GET LESS THAN 243WIN POWER. I CAN JUST PUT THAT TOWARD A 308 SAIGA AND REBARREL IT FOR MUCH MUCH LESS. THE COST OF NOT HAVING TO BUY SPECIAL MAGS AND BOLTS TO DO A 223 BUILD ARE OF SOME SAVINGS. IT WOULD BE A BARREL SWAP ONLY.. i COULD LIKELY MAKE THEM FOR ABOUT $175 EACH OR SO BUT A GUY STILL NEEDS TO BUY DIES.

    I WONDER WHAT LEE OR SOME OTHER COMPANY WOULD MAKE A SIMPLE STANDARD SET FOR AND WHAT THE MINIMUM COST THERE WOULD BE??/ OR A GUY COULD BUY A DIE REAMER AND MAKE THE DIES FOR SALE AS WELL.

    THERE ARE LOTS OF 243 TAKE OFF BARRELS OUT THERE FOR AROUND $35 SO THATS THE GOOD NEWS. THERE GOING TO BE A 1-10 TWIST SO THEY WONT SHOOT MORE THAN A 100 GRAIN SOFTPOINT. BUT THE WOULD BE AWSOME FOR 85 GRAIN STUFF.

    I WOULD CONSIDER DOING IT ONLY IF THERE WAS A WAY TO RECOVER SOME OF THE TOOLING COSTS. IM SURE IF THERE WAS INTEST STANDARD NON BUSHING DIES COULD BE MADE FOR LESS IF THERE WAS A DEMAND.

    MOST AK GUYS DONT CARE ABOUT MUCH OTHER THAN CHEAP PLINKING OR THEY GET A AR. SO I DONT KNOW IF ITS WORTH IT.

    I COULD CHAMBER A FEW BLANKS OR BARRELS AN SELL THEM BUT IF DIES ARE GOING TO BE THAT MUCH THEN I DOUBT MANY WOULD GO FOR IT. THE SAME DIES WILL DO BOTH THE 22 AN 6MM WITH THERE REPLACEABLE BUSHING FOR THE NECK. HELL EVEN A 20, 6.5, 270, 257, 30 CAL COULD LIKELY BE DONE WITHT HE DIES. THE REAMER WOULD BE DIFFERANT. THERE IS A 20 BEGGS AS WELL.

    IM JUST NOT SURE ITS WORTH IT WHEN i CAN SIMPLY BUILD A 243 ON A ROMMY KIT AN LOAD IT LIGHT. IT WOULD BE A GREAT OPTION FOR GUYS WHO DONT WANT TO DO ALL THAT AN JUST WANT TO CHANGE A BARRREL.

    IT WOULD MAKE THE AK INTO A 400 YARD GUN AN LIKELY WOULD SHOOT DAMM WELL.
    IT WOULD BE A BETTER MILITARY ROUND AS WELL OVER THE 5.56/223

    IM GOING TO SEND A EMAIL TO GENE BEGGS AND SEE WHAT HE HAS TO SAY. I HEAR HE IS A GOOD GUY TO DEAL WITH. I THINK THERE ARE RENTAL REAMERS OUT THERE FOR THIS.

    ID LOVE TO BUILD A SLEEPER AK WITH HIGH END BARREL WITH ALL THE STANDARD BARREL PARTS THAT COULD SHOOT a 1/2" group . BEEN SAVING A MILLED M70 FOR SUCH A BUILD .

    ID LOVE TO SEE THE LOOK ON A AR GUYS FACE WHEN IM SHOOTING AT 300 YARDS WITH A BANANA CLIP AK. AND ITS KICKING 7.62X39 STAMPED BRASS OUT THE SIDE OF IT. LOL

  5. #5
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    OK I PULLED SOME 6MM BULLETS OUT OF THERE BOXES TODAY AN COMPARED THERE LENGTHS TO A 125 GRAIN X39 BULLET. IT LOOKS LIKE 75 GRAIN WOULD BE ABOUT THE MAX LENGTH YOU COULD USE AN STILL KEEP FROM HAVING TO SEAT THE BULLETS DEEPER THAN A 30 CALL BULLET ANN NOT EXCEDE THE 7.62X39 OVERALL LENGTH.

    A 75 GRAIN 6MM IS ABOUT THE SAME LENGTH AS A 125 GR 30 CAL.

    A 80 IS VERY DOABLE BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO SEAT IT IN SOME AN LOSE SOME CASE CAPACITY. IM NOT SURE IF IT WOULD BE A ISSUE UNTILL i KNEW THE LOADS AND WHAT AMOUNT POWDERS WERE NEEDED IT MAY BE A NON ISSUE.

    THIS IS STILL A VIABLE ROUND BUT I DONT THINK YOU GOING TO BE SHOOTING 110 GRAINERS FROM A FACTROY MAG.

    THOSE 75 GRIANERS WOULD BE PERFECT HOW EVER FOR AWSOME 300 YARD PLUS GUN AND THERE WOULD BE BALLISTIC GAINS OVER A 223.


    IM BASING ALL THIS ON KEEPING THE OAL LENGTH THE SAME AS A ORIGINAL 7.62X39. THERE MAY BE SOME ROOM IN THE MAG WELL FOR ALLOWING THE BULLET TO BE SEATED OUT A LITTLE MORE. ALSO 90 GRINERS ONLY WOULD BE SEATED TO ABOUT WERE THE NECK ENDS SO THIS MIGHT BE FINE IN THE END AS LONG AS A MAX LOAD CAN BE REACHED WITH OUT COMPRESSION ISSUES.

    ALL I NEED IS MONEY AN TIME.

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    CONTACTED HORNADY THEY WILL NOT SELL THE DIES TO THE PUBLIC YOU MUST GET THEM FROM MR BEGGS. LEE WILL MAKE A SET FOR A $130 SET UP CHARGE AN THEN FOR ABOUT $60 FOR THE DIES THEM SELVES. iF WERE TO DO THIS ID LIKELY GET LIKE 5 SETS OF DIES TO GO WITH ANY BARRELS i MIGHT SELL.

    IM MULLING THIS OVER. KITS ARE JUST TO DAMM EXPENSIVE. A GUY CAN GET INTO A 6MM-223 AR FOR ABOUT WHAT IT WILL CAST TO BUILD A 6MM-X39 AND THEN BUY THE SPECIAL DIES. I MIGHT JUST STICK WITH THE 243 WIN AK

  7. #7
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    LEE PERCISION CAN DO DIES PRETTY CHEAP AFTER A $130 SET UP CHARGE. AROUND $45 EACH FOR THE DIES.

    Custom Rifle and Handgun Reloading Die Sets - Lee Precision

    COULD LIKELY HAVE A SLIGHTLY UNDER SIZE DIE MADE FROM THE BENCH REST VERSION AN USE THE REAMER AS IS. OR I COULD REWRK THE REAMER AND HAVE DIES MADE TO FIT IT AS WELL. i WOULD WANT A LITLE MORE THAN .002 NECK CLEARANCE AN A LITTEL MORE CLEARANCE ON THE BODY AS WELL. MAY BE BETTER TO JUST START FROM SCRATCH.

    IF I EVER DO THIS IM DEFFINATLY GOING TO HAVE A FEW EXTRA DIES MADE TO BE ABLE TO SELL WITH ANY BARRELS I MAKE FOR SALE TO OFF SET THE COSTS.

    IM GOING TO CONTACT MR BEGGS THIS WEEK AN SEE WHAT INPUT HE MIGHT HAVE ON USING X39 BRASS.

  8. #8
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I EMAILED GENE BEGGS ABOUT THE ROUND AN IF ANY ONE HAS EVER USED X39 BRASS TO MAKE CHEAP 6MM BEGGS CASES.

    IT HAS ALSO OCCURED TO ME THAT REDDING MAKES BUSHING DIES FOR THE 7.62X39 AND THAT I COULD LIKEY JUST NECK DOWN A X39 CASE TO 6MM OR SMALLER WITH OUT ANYHTING SPECIAL. i MIGHT HAVE TO NECK REAM WHEN DONE DEPENDING ON HOW THICK THE NECK IS. IT WONT HAVE THE SPECIAL NECK TO SHOULDER ANGLE OF THE BEGGS TO PREVENT CASE STRETCH BUT IT WOULD STILL BE A GOOD ROUND. PTG SHOWS A 6X39 REAMER ON THERE SITE.

    IM WONDERING IT A 22 RUSSIAN REAMER WITH A REMOVABLE PILOT COULD BE USED AND THEN JUST NECK AN THROAT THE CAHMBER TO 6MM???? IM NOT SURE IF THATS DOABLE????? IF IT IS I MIGHT BE ABLE TO HAVE ONE OF MY 7.62X39 REAMERS CUT TO A 220 RUSSIAN OR 6MMX39 AN SAVE A FEW BUCKS.

    ID RATHER GOT HE BEGGS ROUTE IF POSSABLE AS HES DONE ALL THE HOME WORK.

  9. #9
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    HMMMMMM ANOTHER WAY TO GO IS TO MAKE MY OWN SIZING DIES. BLANKS ARE AROUND $20 AN A SIZING REAMER WOULD BE ABOUT $130. PRICY BUT IT WOULD BE THE SAME PRICE TO GET THE REAMER AS IT WOULD TO PAY THE LEE SET UP CHARGE.
    AN THEN I COULD MAKE ALL THE DIES I NEEDED AS LONG AS THE REAMER STAYS SHARP. SAY YOU DONT HAVE TO HARDEN THE DIES.

    THERE ARE BUSHING DIE BLANKS ALSO FOR ABOUT $65 THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER WAY TO GO.Pacific Tool & Gauge, Inc. - Reloading Tools

    DIE BLANKS

    Pacific Tool & Gauge, Inc. - Reloading Tools


    BUSHING DIE BLANKS
    Newlon Precision

  10. #10
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    NO REPLY YET FROM MR BEGGS. MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE NOT MENTIONED AK 47 IN MY EMAIL??

    IM THINKING FOR A NON BENCH REST GUY A A SIMPLE NECKED DOWN X39 TO 6MM WOULD BE FINE BUT I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF BRASS LASTING LONGER EVEN THOUGH AKS ARE HARD ON BRASS. I ALSO LIKE THAT THERE IS ALREADY A REAMER DESIGN ON FILE AND ITS PROVEN. DIES WOULD BE EASY ENOUGH TO MKE IF I HADE A SIZING REAMER.

    ID HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SELL A FEW BARRELS AN DIES TO MAKE IT WORTH DOING. ?????

    A 6MM AK WOULD BE A GREAT ROUND FOR A LOT OF THINGS. MIGHT HAVE TO DO MYOWN ROUND THE 6MMX39BG

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