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Thread: PSL 308 conversion?

  1. #31
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    The M76 bolt and bolt carrier can be bought for $150. I'm sure there are PSL owners that would buy the spare 7.62x54R bolt
    ID GO THAT ROUTE BEFOR WELDING ON A BOLT.

    THERE ARE A LOT OF WAYS TO LEGENTEN A BOLT YOU CAN ADD AN EXTENSION TO A SMALL STEM BOLT THAT SLIDES OVER THE EXISTING STEM AND THEN MAKE THE OFD FIT A LSRGE STEM CARRIER THEN WHILE YOU ARE AT IT ADD A SPPRING LOADED FIRING PIN AS IF YOUR GOING TO SHOOT TRUE 308 THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE ONE AN IF YOUR GOING TO HAND LOADF ITS GOOD IDEA AS WELL SO YOU CAN USE STANDARD PRIMERS. SLAM FIRES SUCK ON SOFT PRIMERS. AN YES IT DOES HAPPEN i KNOW FOR A FACT.

  2. #32
    Gunco Member akma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    were did you read that and what is there proof???????? I have spent the lasst 6 years tring to find any thing in writing from a reputable source that tells what pressures a 2 lug trunion is safe at. an ii have yet to see any one blow up a 308 conversion.

    I started the orginal 308 conversion thread here like 5 years ago and there is a ton of info on it. read all of it and then decide.

    WILL I TELL YOU THE CONVERSION IS SAFE? NO HAVE I DONE THE CONVERSION ON NUMERIOUS 308 PARENT CASE ROUNDS? YES. DO I LOAD TO THE MAX OR SHOOT FACTORY LOADS / NO.

    IF I COULD GO TO THE RUSSIAN AK FACTORY AND ASK TWO QUESTIONS IT WOULD E AT WHAT PRESSURE WILL A STANDARD AKM AN M70 TYPE TRUNION PROOF OUT AT AN

    WTF WERE YOU THINKING WITHT HE SITE RADIOUS AN TRIGGERS.

    THERE IS BASICALY ZERO INFO OF AKS AND WHT PRESSURES THEY WILL FAIL A PROFF TEST AT. I HAVE READ THAT THE SAIGA IS THREE LUG BECAUSE IT FAILES THE CIP TESTING BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN OFFICAL DOCUMENT. I HAVE THERE ARE OTHER REASONS FOR THE THIRD LUG AN KEEP IN MIND THAT THIRD LUG DONT COST 10 CENTS MORE TO HAVE THERE.

    IN ADDITION TO THE 3RD LUFG THE BOLT HEAD IS WIDER AS WELL BUT IF THE SIDES OF A 308 SAIGA BOLT WERE MACHINED SLIGHTLY IT WILL FIT IN A STANDARD TRUNION. I HAVE STARED AT MY 308 BOLT AND STANDARD BOLTS FOR HOURS.
    It was in conjunction with that custom heavy barrel PSL. I can't say they had any proof other than higher chamber pressure and the lack of a third lug. I certainly am not qualified to know myself that is why I asked. Please educate me because I would love a .308 PSL.

    Thank you

  3. #33
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    read the 308 conversion page a lot applies to a psl as it appears the trunion is vry close to a m70 or rpk. there is all kinds of discussion but when its all over there is no real answer as to what is the safe limt of an AK or PSL bolt an trunion.

    I can tell you I have loaded 7.62x39 in these guns untill the primers were piercing an the brass was flowing into the extractor port. likley around 65,000 PSI or even more. a 22-250 rounds is at 65,000 psi an it will not pierceprimers or have brass flowing into the extractor groove. so its possable I have hit 70,000 PSI. no way to know but Im sure it was well over 60,000 PSI. there are tons of variable . the 308 galil uses a two lug bolt an it looks identical to a standard x39 bolt except the bolt face is opend up.

    untill some ones poneys up the cash an takes a few variants an has them profesional proff tested to a point of distruction w will never know an it wpould have to be dome with multipul guns to prove that there is a average pressure were failure or at least head space begins to change. we will not have any facts on the matter.

    I have conversions an i have shot factrory ammo in 243 an 308 but it really proves nothing. i load in the middle of the range.

    Imo trusting military surplus ammo that was made 60 years ago by god knows who and how an to what specs is a bad idea .

  4. #34
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Read this thread from start to finish i started it in 2005 its likely the most involved conversation about the matter inthe world. there are some pretty smart guy in there an ton of info. good discussions on PSI vs CUP SAMMI SPECS VS CIP ETC.

    IMO its a must read if your going to do a conversion of any calibur with a bigger bolt face an higher pressures.

    http://www.gunco.net/forums/f244/308-ak-18443/

  5. #35
    Gunco Member kevin47's Avatar
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    haven,t handled one but... what did the israelis use for the bolt in their .308 galil. i would trust them to have tested thoroghly before sending out to troops... just a thought and question

  6. #36
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    haven,t handled one but... what did the israelis use for the bolt in their .308 galil. i would trust them to have tested thoroghly before sending out to troops... just a thought and question
    from the pictures Ive seen it looks just like a 7.62x39 bolt but with a bigger bolt face.

    I had read stories of the Galil falling ocasionaly but I cant find them any more.

    considering the AR 15/m16 has bolts fail all the time id feel safer shooting the Galil .

    there are very few documented reports of any ak style bolt failing.

    if some one wants to send me a bolt an trunion. Ill load a 308 or 243 build to the max an do some imporvised proof testing.

  7. #37
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    The Galil may use better steel than what they're using in Russia. The Galil was designed before there were mandatory CIP overpressure proof testing required in Europe. The Russians tried to make a two lug 308 AK but they wouldn't pass the 125 percent pressure testing. They went to the three lug bolt. The bolt head and right bolt lug of the Yugoslavian 308 M77 AK and 8 mm M76 are larger than a standard AK bolt. The 308 Valmet bolt is also larger in the same way. In a stamped receiver I would stay with an RPK type trunnion and use a 308 Galil bolt or if using a PSL, use an M76 bolt.

  8. #38
    Gunco Regular mrtank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allesennogwat View Post
    The Galil may use better steel than what they're using in Russia. The Galil was designed before there were mandatory CIP overpressure proof testing required in Europe. The Russians tried to make a two lug 308 AK but they wouldn't pass the 125 percent pressure testing. They went to the three lug bolt.
    That rumor has been around for a while, there is no data to support and authenticate that rumor.

    Quote Originally Posted by allesennogwat View Post
    The bolt head and right bolt lug of the Yugoslavian 308 M77 AK and 8 mm M76 are larger than a standard AK bolt. The 308 Valmet bolt is also larger in the same way. In a stamped receiver I would stay with an RPK type trunnion and use a 308 Galil bolt or if using a PSL, use an M76 bolt.
    Incorrect. As I Stated earlier the M76 bolt is has the same lug dimensions as the M70 bolts. In addition the AK74/AK100 bolts have thicker lugs than the AK47,AKM ,PSL, and M76.

    If you wanted to use the AK74/AK100 bolt you would have to lengthen the stem, replace the firing pin with one of proper dimensions, open up the bolt face to the proper dimensions, modify the extractor, rework the extractor cut out on the bolt stem, sleeve your PSL bolt carrier for the small stem bolt. The Saiga 7.62x39 bolt would require less material removed from the bolt pocket and the extractor. Kvar has them at the moment.

  9. #39
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrtank View Post
    That rumor has been around for a while, there is no data to support and authenticate that rumor.



    Incorrect. As I Stated earlier the M76 bolt is has the same lug dimensions as the M70 bolts. In addition the AK74/AK100 bolts have thicker lugs than the AK47,AKM ,PSL, and M76.

    If you wanted to use the AK74/AK100 bolt you would have to lengthen the stem, replace the firing pin with one of proper dimensions, open up the bolt face to the proper dimensions, modify the extractor, rework the extractor cut out on the bolt stem, sleeve your PSL bolt carrier for the small stem bolt. The Saiga 7.62x39 bolt would require less material removed from the bolt pocket and the extractor. Kvar has them at the moment.
    In the original AK design, types 1 through 3, the right bolt lug is the recoil lug. The left lug is designed only to turn the bolt. The right bolt lug in the Yugo 308, Valmet 308 and 8 mm M76 is much larger than the a standard AK bolt. When the AKM was designed, the left lug was then used to share the recoil with the right bolt lug. Then in the AK-74 the right bolt lug was made larger and stronger than the previous 7.62 bolt designs. The Russia n 308 three lug info is not just rumor. It is done in both the 308 Vepr and the 308 Saiga. That is not just by chance. The magazines and some other designs of the two Russian rifles do not interchange. They both went to three lug bolts in order to pass CIP proof testing which was only a recent requirement in western Europe at the time.

  10. #40
    Gunco Member gasngo's Avatar
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    Im still waiting on the barrel and the receiver. As soon as that stuff gets here Im ready to get this thing moving.

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