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Thread: 6mm BENCH REST

  1. #51
    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    I would think the lug nut studs would have a softer core and you'd be fine once you face it in the lathe down to the softer steel on both ends. I haven't done it, I just drill, ream and thread a nice section of 4150 to make the dies. The wheel stud is an old time wildcatter trick.

  2. #52
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    ILL HAVE TO PICK UP A FEW OF THE STUDS AN SEE HOW HARD THEY ARE. i MAY EVEN HAVE SOME.

    ID LIKE TO DO A DIE THAT IS IDENTICAL TO MY CHAMBER WITH RIFLING MADE FROM A BARREL PIECE SO I CLOULD PRE TEST EVERY ROUND IN MY PRESS FOR FIT INSTEAD OF HAVING TO TRY THEM IN THE GUN. WAS WAS THINKING OF MILLING A SLOT IN IT TO VIEW WERE THE BULLET IS IN RELATION TO THE RIFLEING AS WELL. SORT OF A CHECK TOOL. IT WOULD BE A GREAT AID FOIR SETING BULLET DEPTH AS WELL.

    PTG SELLS A PILOTED DIE BLANK FOR $19.99 WITH KNURLS THAT LOOKS REALLY NICE AN IT CAN BE HARDENED. THEY SELL UN PIOLTED ONES FOR $12.50

    I CAN MAKE ON MY SELF BUT BY THE TIME I CUT IT, TURN IT , TREAD IT AN THEN BORE IT IM NOT SURE IT WOULD BE WORTH IT .

    HERE IS A LINK
    243 Caliber (6mm) Pilot Hole Die Blank 7/8-14 Thread [744472] - $19.99 : Pacific Tool & Gauge, Inc. - Store Home, Redefining Quality in Manufacturing

    IM ALSO THINKING OF A FIRE FROMING DIE WERE YOU FIRE FORM IN A DIE INSTEAD OF YOUR BARREL.

  3. #53
    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    Heck yeah thats a good deal. The fact that it is already piloted is awesome and will save you lots of time. And often spare time is at a premium.

  4. #54
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Newlon makes these there pricy but if you want a bushing die they would save a lot of time. you would still need the sizing reamer.
    Im looking at getting bushing dies for this project down the road.
    Im avoiding them right now as I want to be able make this doable with out a lt of expensive dies to make ammo.
    If a guy could make brass from nato cases in three or four steps on a a $60 die set it would be round any one could load for.
    you can get 30mm br an 7mm br form diea for about $30 each. a form die can be made with a chamber reamer. I could use differant pilots an cheap chucking remaers to make a set of step dies pretty cheap say 7.62,an 7mm. If I can get the inside reamer dialed in this will be a pretty easy round to make.

    Newlon link.
    Newlon Precision

  5. #55
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    BEEN PLAYING AGAIN TODAY WITH CASE LENGTHS I CAN GO AS LONG AS 1.70" / 43.19MM BUT I START RUNNING INTO ISSUES WITH BEING ABLE TO PROPERLY SEAT LONGER BULLETS CORRECTLY. THE 6MM-223 HAS THE SAME ISSUES.

    I LIKELY COULD GET SOME REALLY REALLY FAST 55 GRAINERS OUT OF A CASE LIKE THIS BUT I WANT THIS TO BE A HUNTING ROUND ALSO SO ILL THINK ILL GIVE UP SOME CSSE CAPACITY FOR THE ABILITY TO SEAT LONG BULLETS PROPERLY.

    I WAS LOOKING AT BULLETS A LOT TODAY AN THERE A AT LEAST A 100 6MM CHOICES FROM 55 GRAIN TO 115 .

    I DID SOME RESEARCH AN MOST REMINGTON TAKE OFF BARRELS IN 243 WIN ARE
    9 1/8" TWIST. THIS SHOULD ALLOW ME TO SHOOT SOME OF THE OVER 100 GRAIN HIGH BC BULLETS BARELY. ILL NEED TO DO SOME MORE RESEARCH. IM GOING CONSERVITAVE ON MY SPEED ESTIMATIONS AS A 18" BARREL WILL BE MY LIKELY LENGTH FOR A LIGHT CARRY AK AN ITS WHAT YOU WILL END UP WITH BY STATING WITH A 20" TAKE OFF.

    IM SORT OF THINKING THE 95 GRAIN HUNTING BULLETS ARE MY BEST CHOICE. I WANT TO USE PLASTIC TIPS FOR FEEDING WITH LESS BULLET DEFORMATION AN I WAS LOOKING AT ONES WITH A CANALURE.

    LEE DOES MAKE A FACTRY CRIMP DIE ALSO
    Custom Rifle Factory Crimp Die

    I WAS THINKING IT MIGHT BE A NICE THING TO HAVE. THERE IS NOT A LOT OF TAPER ON THEIS ROUND SO THE BULLET MIGHT HAVE A HARD TIME FEEDING.

    ULTIMATLY ID LIKE TO BE ABLE TO LOAD HOLLOW POINTS BUT IM NOT BANKING ON IT.

    ID LIKE TO GET 3000 FPS AT A SAFE PRESSURE WITH A 18" BARREL IT SHOULD BE CLOSE ESPECIALY WITH THE EXTRA CAPACITY OVER A STANDARD BENCH REST. I SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET THOSE NUMBERS WITH A LIGHTER 95 GRAIN VS A 100 GRAIN WHO KNOWS AN INNED A CRONY BAD. ID LIKE ONE FOR XMASS.

    IM TRYING TO FIND BULLETS THAT LIST THE CANALURE POSITION AS WELL. I MAY NEED TO MAKE A FEW CALLS. THE POSTITION WOULD HELP DICTATE A NECK LENGTH. SINCE IM MAKING BRASS FROM CUT 308 ETC I CAN MAKE THE NECK AS LONG AS I WANT. IT WOULD MAKE SENCE TO JUST COPY A 243 WIN NECK LENGTH AS THAT LIKELY WHAT MOST OF THE HUNTING BULLETS ARE DESIGNED FOR.

    THE ROUNDS SEEM TO FIT IN A STANDARD AK MAG OK IF THE FOLLOWER STOP BUMP IS REMOVED OTHER WISE THE SHOLDER NEEDS TO BE BEHIND THE BUMP. THE RIB WERE THE MAG STEPS DOWN IN THE FRONT SEEMS TO HIT THE BRASS PRETTY HARD WHEN PUSHING THEM OUT BY HAND. IT COULD BE HAMMERED FLATTER AT THE VERY TOP PRETTY EASY AN THIS MAY BE A WAY TO TUNE FEEDING. BRASS DAMGAE IS A MAJOR CONCERN I WANT TO BE ABLE TO RELOAD AS MUCH AS POSSABLE.
    I FIGURED A RELOADER CAN SHOOT THIS ROUND CONSEDERABLY CHEAPER THAN A STANDARD BOXER PRIMED 7.62X39 AS ONCE FORED 308 BRASS IS MUCH CHEAPER THAN YOU CAN GET X39 BRASS FOR. THE LUBI ATUFF AT A $1 A ROUND CANT BE DAMAGED OR ITS NOT WORTH IT.

    MY START UP PLAN IS TO MAKE A CASE THAT IS 6MM BR LENGTH SO I CAN TEST LAPUIS BRASS . ILL DO A 6MM BRX INITALLY AN THEN INCREASE THE LENGTH LATER.
    THE REASONING IS TWO FOLD ONE THERE ARE KNOWN ;LOADS FOR THE BRX SO i CAN MAKE AMMO RIGHT AWAY AN THEN I CAN ALSO TEST HOME MADE VS COMMERCIAL TARGET GRADE 6MM BR BRASS.

  6. #56
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I SPENT A GOOD PART OF THE DAY MAKING BRASS DIFFERANT WAYS.

    MY IDEA TO INSIDE NECK REAM AT THE .308 STAGE DID NOT WORK IT MADE THEM TO THIN AN THEY COLAPSED EVERY TIME WHEN GOING TO 6MM. i TRIED .3135 IN A 308 X1.5 TRIM DIE.

    I WENT TO MY BACK UP PLAN USING A ,240 REAMER AT THE 6MM STAGE AN I GOT A NECK OD THATS TO SMALL. I ENDED UP A AROUND .263 IF i RAN A REAMER IN WITH THE CASE IN THE SIZING DIE AFTER A FULL LENGTH SIZING.



    I TRIED REAMING THE NECKS TO .240 IN A 6MM BR TRIM DIE THAT IS SAID TO BE LIKE A ACTUAL CHAMBER AN THEN RUNNING THE REAMED BRASS THROUGH THE SIZING DIE. GOT NECKS THAT ARE SLIGHTLY TO BIG. THEY WERE .269.

    CHAMBER REAMER IS SUSPOSED TO CUT A .269 NECK AN ID LIKE TO HAVE .003-.005 NECK CLEANRANCE FOR A AK.

    I EITHER NEED TO GET A BIGER REAMER OR A SMALLER REAMER.

    I AM ABLE TO RUN SIZE CUT CASES IN A 7MM BR DIE WITH OUT USING THE .308 TRIM DIE. I CAN THEN RUN THEM INTO A 6MM BR TRIM DIE AN REAM THEM AT THAT POINT. THAT GETS ME A .269 NECK THIS ABOUT .003-.005 TO BIG. I WISH THE REAMER WAS A LITTLE BIGGER OR THE DIE WAS SLIGHTLY SMALLER AT THE NECK.

    THEY NEED TO BE REAMED BEFORE TRING TO FULL LENGTH SIZE WITH A EXPANDER BALL INSTALLED.

    IM THINKING OF MAKING A CUSTOM TRIM DIE WITH MY REAMER AN ADJUSTING THE NECK SIZE FOR REAMING WITH IT.

    NEXT TIME I START A PROJECT LIKE THIS IM GOING TO MAKE THE BRASS FIRST AN THEN HAVE A REAMER CUT TO FIT IT.

    IM TRYING TO AVOID OUTSIDE NECK TURNING. I COULD JUST DO A SKIM PASS ON THE BRASS THATS COMING OUT AT .269 AN SHOOT IT.

    I AM GETTING SOME NON CONCENTRIC CASES AS WELL.

    THE NEXT ISSUE IS PICKING A CASE LENGTH AN RIM TO SHOULDER LENGTH.

    IM STARTING TO THINK A 6MM BRX WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD IDEA AS IS AN THEN TRY TO MAKE BRASS TO FIT IT. I STILL CAN BUT ID LIKE A LONGER NECK. I HAVE 6MM BR BRASS COMING. THE ISSUE IS I NEED TO FIRE FORM TO MAKE BRX AN THAT REQUIRES A GUN TO SHOT IT IN A CATCH 22. LOL

    HERE IS SOME PICS OF VARIOUS ROUNDS I HAVE MADE THERE ALL A FEW THOU DIFFERANT.

    THE CASES ON TOP AARE THE ONES I MAKE . THERE IS A 223 AN X39 ON ONE SIDE AN A 22-250 AN 308 ON THE OTHER FOR COMPARISION. THERE IS A 1.700 VERSION IN THERE ITS GOT TO HAVE CLOSE TO 46 GRAINS OF CAPACITY.
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  7. #57
    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    Case forming is not fun for me either. Shooting a completed wildcat that you made from start to finish is though! I have been thinking about some builds based off of the x39 case or the 5.45 case, but alot of people have been making the 5.45 out of 223 cases so perhaps I'm close enough with the 223 case.

  8. #58
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I have been thinking about some builds based off of the x39 case
    I think a simple necked down x39 to 6mm, .25, 6.5, 6.8 or 7mm would be a great AK round. the 6mm begs is basicaly just that with a sharper radious were the shouder breaks. it should be a barrel only type deal.

    a simple 6mmx39 would be a really accurate round in a bolt gun as well an there is 220 russian brass from Lapua that is the best inthe world.

    If I were not trying to make some hting to shoot 600+ yards I would have gone that route. I want my round to do every thing from varmnts to deer to target. I als want it to blow the doors off the grendel an the 6.8 spc. i want a round designed for the ak not the AR.

    Im going to do a 6mm BRX chamber 1st an load up some standard Lupia 6mm br brass an fire form them in a BRX chamber with a slightly longer neck . this will give me a standard round to be copied initaly an get me someting to be able to shot an work out cycling an mags. I will then make my cut 308 brass to match what i get. I need to be able to get a standard to work from. its sort of a chiken or egg thing.

    I have a chamber reamer an a seperate throater. im married to having to use them as is. so i need to make a chamber that will take a BRX round. the trouble is i dont have a brx round to work with or a head space guage. Im hoping I can just use a 6mm br case formed on my dies an shim that is the stated additonal length of the BRX as guage. i have to be carefull or ill end up with to long of a chamber for `6mm br brass or two short an have issues with the brass hitting the ned of the chamber an possably locking the bullet in.

    I really wish I had a piece of BRX brass or a guage. im going to contact ptg monday an see if there are any guages on the shelf for this. id hate to wait 4-6 weeks for a custom guage. I may hit the 6mm sites an see some one would send or sell me a couple of cases that are fire formed.

    a barrel blank stub is going into the lathe tommorow to be chambered an milled open as a visual aid tool.

  9. #59
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    TODAY MY ACTUAL 6MM BR NORMA BRASS MADE BY LAPUA ARRIVED.

    I LOADED UP A STANDARD 6MM BR LOAD, AFTER SIZING IN MY DIES . THE NECK MEASURES .266. WTF ???? EVERY ARTICLE ON THE NET SAYS IT WILL SHOULD BE 270 OR SO AN NEED TO BE TURNED TO FIT MY .269 REAMER NECK SPEC. NOT SURE WHAT TO MAKE OUT OF THAT. THERE ARE OLD LAPUA BRASS AN NEWER LOT OF SO CALLED BLUE BOX BRASS. THE BLUE BOX IS SUSPOSED TO BE BIGGER. ILL NEED TO CONATCT BRUNO SHOOTING SUPPLIES TO VERIFY WHAT I GOT . IT SHOULD BE BLUE BOX .

    IF THE BRASS IS THE NEW LOT THEN IM LIKELY GOOD TO SHOOT WITH NO TURNING OR INSIDE REAMING . THIS WOULD BE AWSOME.

    I MADE UP SOME MORE CASES FROM MIL SPECK 7.62X51 NATO BRASS. I AM NOW ABLE TO MAKE IT BY

    1. SIZING IT IN A 308X1.5 TRIM DIE SHIMMED UP .200" AN CUT IT THERE

    2. THEN SIZE IT IN A 7MM BR FL SIZING DIE WITH NO EXPANDER BALL.

    3. THEN RUN IT INTO A 6MM BR TRIM DIE WITH NO SHIM AN REAM WITH A .INSIDE REAMER.

    4. THEN FULL LENGTH RESIZE WITH A 6MM BR DIE

    5. THEN TRIM TO CORRECT LENGTH.

    THIS IS THREE EXTRA PULLS OF THE PRESS HANDEL A CUT OFF OF THE BRASS AN A INSIDE REAM OF THE NECK OVER WHAT IT TAKES TO RELOAD NORMAL FIRED BRASS. I TRIM CASES TO SIZE ALWAYS OR AT LEAST CHECK SO IM NOT COUNTING IT AS ADDITIONAL. WITH A MINI CHOP SAW SET UP IM THINKING IT WILL ADD ABOUT 30 SECONDS FOR EACH PIECE OF BRASS OR LESS TO MAKE IT OVER STANDARD. NOT TO BAD IMO.

    THIS IS GIVING ME ABOUT A .266 NECK OD WITH A BULLET SEATED THAT SHOULD BE GOOD FOR A .269 NECK CHAMBER.

    THE NATO BRASS IS THICK AN IM GOING TO LOOSE CAPACITY OVER THE TRUE BR BRASS.

    I HAVE SETTLED ( FOR KNOW) ON A VERSION THAT HAS A .115" LONGER SHOULDER TO BASE MEASUREMENT. THIS IS .015 LONGER THAN A 6MM BRX ACCORDING TO THE INTERNET. I CHOSE THIS LENGTH BECAUSE IT ALLOWS A 100 GRAIN SPEER SOFT POINT TO BE SEATED AT THE NECK SHOUDER JUNCTION AN BE RIGHT AT 2.250" IN LOADED LENGTH TO JUST FIT IN A AK 7.62X39 MAG. THIS SHOULDER LENGTH ALSO ALLOWS SHOUDER TO CLEAR THE FOLLOWER STOP ON 7.62X39 MAGS ( IM USING A 20 ROUND AMD 65 MAG AS STANDARD) . THIS WILL ALSO ALLOW STANDARD 6MM BR BRASS TO BE USED BLOWN OUT JUST LIKE IS DONE TO MAKE THE BRX. I WONT NEED TO TRIM MY BRASS BACK .

    NOW THE BAD NEWS. I MEASURED CASE CAPACITY IN GRAINS OF WATER AN I COME UP WITH 36.4 FOR A UNFIRED LAPUA 6MM BR CASE. MY MADE FROM NATO BRASS
    .115" SHOULDER FORWARD VERSION HAS .35 GRAINS WATER .

    MY WILDCAT VERSION IS 1.4 GRAINS SMALLER IN CAPACITY .
    KEEPING IN MIND THAT A 6MM BR HAS .115 LESS NECK THAT WILL BE FILLED BY BULLET THAN MY VARIANT SO IN REALITY ILL BE ABOUT THE SAME. ILL NEED TO BACK OFF ON MY PREDICTED SPEEDS AS WELL AS POWDER IF I USE MILITARY BRASS. IF I USE LUPIA OR OTHER COMMERCIAL THINNER BRASS THEN ILL BE BACK TO COSE TO MY PREDICTED SPEEDS. IN FACT I SHOULD SEE 3000 FPS WITH A 100 GR BULLET STILL IN A LONG BARREL.

    ILL LIKELY BE ABLE TO USE STANDARD 6MM BR LOADS IN MY NATO BRASS CASES AS THE CAPACITY IS ALMOST IDENTICAL. I ALSO EXPECT TO GAIN SOME WHEN IT IS FORE IN A CHAMBER.

    IM COING TO TRY SOME VARIOUS COMMERCIAL BRASS TO GET A RECORD OF WHAT THE CAPACITYS ARE. I HAVE A COUPLE PIECES OF LAKE CITY MATCH TO TRY AS WELL AS SOME REMINGTON COMMERCIAL 243.

    EITHER WAY IM WAY BETTER THAN A 7.62X39 OR EVEN A 6.5 GRENDAL IN CAPACITY. i STILL CAN EXPECT AROUND 2900 FPS WITH A 95 GRAIN BULLET THIS IS ABOUT WHAT MANY FACTORY 243 WIN LOADS WILL GIVE.

    IM CONFIDENT ENOUGH THAT I CAN MAKE THIS WORK THAT ILL BE ORDERING 2000 ROUNDS OF ONCE FIRED 308 BRASS ON MONDAY IF ITS STILL THERE.

    I ALSO MADE UP A VERSION THAT HAS EVEN A LONGER SHOULDER TO BASE LENGTH
    .250" WITH THE TOTAL CASE LENGTH OF ABOUT 1.750 THAT WOULD REALLY LAUNCH A 60 GRAIN VARMINT BULLET AN STILL FIT IN A Ak MAG. IT HAS MORE NECK THAN A 6MM-223 AN WOULD BE ABLE TO SEAT 55-65 GRAIN BULLET WERE THEY NEED TO BE AN LIKELY STILL BE ABLE TO SHOOT 85 GRAINERS WITHTHEM SEATED BACK IN THE CASE SOME. AFTER I GET A GUN UP AN RUNNING I HOPE TO TRY TO INCREASE THE CHAMBER LENGTH SOME. THE CASE HEAD TO CHAMBER CLEARANCE WILL BE THE DECIDING FACTOR. I ALSO NOTED THAT NATO BRASS IS ABOUT .469 -.470 VS ..464 OF WINCHESTER COMMERCIAL BRASS. I CAN USE 6.5X55 SWEDE BRASS IF THE CHAMBER GETS TO BIG AT THE BACK ALSO AS ITS AROUND .476 - .480

  10. #60
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    GOT A POLISH 5.45 MAG TO PLAY WITH . I NOTICE THE MAG WELL LENGTH IS LONGER AN WILL ALLOW ABOUTA .020 LONGER ROUND. THIS IS A GOOD THING AS IT WOULD ALLOW LONGER BULLETS TO WORK IN THE SAME CASE SEATED OUT MORE.


    THE MAG IS NARROWER AT THE LIPS AS WELL. MY ROUNDS WILL NOT FIT THROUGH. THERE IS A POSSABLITY i CAN MAKE THESE MAGS FEED FROM THE CENTER BUT DOUBLE STACK. A STEEL GALIL HAS THE ;IPS WIDER APART AN MY ROUNDS WILL FIT BETWEEN THEM.

    I ALSO GOT A TAPCO GALIL 223 MAG BY ACCIDENT AN ITS GOT A FEW INTERESTING THINGS AS WELL. NARROWER FEED LIPS VS A BULGY 223 AN THE ROUND WILL NOT FIT BETWEEN THEM. i CAN PUT ABOUT 18 ROUNDS IN ONE. THE ROUNDS WONT STAY UNDER THE LIPS BUT THEY CANT COME OUT DUE TO THE NARROW LIPS. iM THINLING THSES MIGHT BE A CNETER FEED STYPE DEAL ALSO. THERE ONKLY $13 RIGHT NOW AN AMERICAN MADE THEY FIT MY 223 BUILD AS WELL.

    SOME TWEEKING ON THE LIPS OF BOTH OF THESE MAGS MIGHT MAKE THEM WORK VERY WELL AS A CENTER FEED DOUBLE STACK MAG. ALOS NEITHER OF THEM HAVE THE FOLLOWER STOP BUMP LIKE A 7.62 MAG THAT HITS THE SHOULDER ON MY MORE BLOWN OUT CASES.

    ILL NEED TO REORDER A TAPCO 5.45 MAG TO CHECK OUT. iD LIKE TO STICK WITH STEEL IF POSSABLE BECAUSE i CAN WELD AN BEND THEM AS NEEDED. STILL TRYING TO FIND A USE AS IS COMBINATION. THE EXTRA LENGTH OF THE 5.45 MAG IS INTERESTING.

    I SEE THERE ARE 5 ROUND WASR 5.45 MAGS AVALIABE. WOULD MAKE A NICE 3 ROUND MAG FOR HUNTING OR IN THE BAGS ON A BENCH.

    TIME TO MAKE A BARREL AN BUILD A TEST GUN. I HAVE DECIDED TO JUST MAKE A CHAMBER THAT MY ROUND HAS THE RIGHT PROTRUSION AN THEN ADJUST MY DIES WITH A CUSTOM SHIM TO FIT IT AN THEN CALL IT THE STANDARD AN NOT DEVIATE.
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