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Thread: AK in .223 ?

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    Gunco Rookie pdshooter's Avatar
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    Default AK in .223 ?

    Very interested in building AK 74 in .223 how much more work is it ? and who here as built one..And where can one find info, on building one ?....Thank you.....Jeff

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    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    I've built them a couple of ways. The 16 inch Bulgarian barrel has the gas port drilled. It is designed for a short bolt. The standard 5.45 AK-74 bolt is a long bolt. This causes the gas tube to end up short or the top cover ending up short. One fix is to use the combo front sight base / gas block from the 12.5 inch barrel. It has the gas port in the same location and uses a standard piston but the gas tube is suppose to be be slightly shorter due to the gas block design. This can close the gaps when a AK-74 bolt is used. Note the Bulgarian barrel is 23mm at the trunnion and has a wide milled receiver rear sight base. The rear sight base or trunnion will have to be modified or an AK-74 rear sight base may fit the barrel. The barrel will need to be turned down to 22mm or an AK-74 trunnion opened up if an AK-74 trunnion and bolt are used.

    The Bulgarian 5.56 magazines will fit an AK-74 trunnion as will Polish 5.56 magazines. Other 5.56 magazines usually will not fit.

    The 5.45 ejector or receiver will work.

    The East German barrels have unique diameters and need to have the journals turned down for AK-74 parts to fit. They do not have the gas port drilled.

    Galil bolts will work with AKM trunnions as will Galil magazines. The bullet guide may need some modifying to feed ammunition into the barrel.

    The 7.62 AKM rear sight base is way off for 5.56 but the AK-74 5.45 rear sight base is close enough to use.

    The most economical build is to buy a non-modified 223 Saiga. The Bolt and barrel will work with an AK-74 trunnion. The barrel can be fitted with AK-74 parts if desired.

    Some people claim the rear of the AK-74 bullet guide needs relieving for the slightly longer 5.56 cartridge. This is not always the case.

    The 5.56 case is 4.5 mm longer than the 5.45 case. Some people like to cut the ejector back towards to rear to keep the brass from getting beat up as it is ejected but this is not required.

    A Romanian 5.45 trunnion takes a 23 mm barrel and works with a short bolt, such as the Galil bolt and maybe the Yugoslavian bolt (Yugoslavian bolt carrier also required).

    When using a Galil bolt the 7.62 bolt carrier needs to be cut / ground narrower on the bottom to clear the 5.56 magazine opening. Some milled receiver bolt carriers and some rare Romanian 7.62 bolt carriers have a tapered, rounded bottom that may clear a 5.56 magazine without modification. Chinese bolt carriers are also the tapered, rounded bottom type.

  3. #3
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    AS THE ABOVE POST STATED THERE AREA LOT OF WAYS TO SKIN THIS CAT.

    I WENT WITH A ROMMY 7.62X39 KIT A BULGY BOLT AN BULET GUIDE FROM K-VAR ON MY FIRST 223 CONVERSIONS .

    I CAN USE HUNGARIAN MAGS OR GALIL.

    I DID MINE ON A TAPCO FLAT .

    A EASY WAY TO GET A BARREL IF YOU HAVE ACESS TO A LATHE IS JUST BUY A REMINGTON OR SAVAGE BOLT ACTION TAKE OF AN PROFILE IT TO FIT. THIS ALSO ALLOWS YOU TO USE ANY PISTON LENGTH AN WHAT EVER PARTS YOU WANT AN PALCE THEM WERE THEY FIT BEST.

    I HAVENT DONE A BUILD WITH A FACTORY 223 BARREL ALL OF MINE HAVE BEEN ON TAKE OFF BARRELS . IF YOU DO GO THAT ROUTE KEEP IN MIND MOST BOLT ACTION 223,S ARE 1-12 OR 1-14 . NEWERE SAVAGES ARE 1-9 AN AARE WHAT I PERFER TO USE. THAT LETS ME SHOOT UP TO 75 GRAIN AMAXS AN IS GREAT WITH 50 TO 69 GRAIN STUFF ALSO.

    I JUST DID A 223 WEIGER CLONE AN IT RUNS A SMALL STEM ROMMY 223 BOLT AN CARRIER . THE ROMMY BOLT DOES NOT HAVE A SPRING LOADED FIRING PIN THE BULGY DOES. THIS IS IMPORTANT IF YOU WANT TO RUN COMMERCIAL AMMO WITH SOF PRIMERS AN NOT GET SLAM FIRES . YOU WONT LIKELY FIND A ROMMY 223 BOLT FOR SALE IT TOOK ME SEVERAL YEARS TO GET MINE .

    MANY REPORT JUST TAKING A AK 74 KIT AN REBARRELING IT WITH A FEW TWEAKS AN EVEN RUNNING THE 5.45 BOLT AS IS. THE BULGY 5.45 TRUNION WILL NOT TAKE GALIL MAGS WITH OUT SOME MODS AS THERE TWO NARROW IT LOOKS LIKE IT WOULD BE EASY TO WIDEN THEM TO WORK .IM NOT SURE WHAT MAGS GUYS USE ON THOSE SET UPS. SOME GUYS CLAIM THE 5.45 MAG WILL WORK IM NOT SO SURE HOW WELL.

    IF I GET TIME IM GOING TO DO 223 BUILD ON A BULGY 5.45 BOLT AN TRUNION I HAVE AN SEE EXACTLY WHAT WILL AN WILL NOT WORK.

    IF YOU CAN GET A BULGY LARGE STEM SPRING LOADED BOLT STILL, ID JUMP ON ONE AN THEN BUILD ON A X39 TRUNION OR ROMMY KIT.

    THE FIRST STEP IS FINDING A KIT TO BUILD ON AN THEN THAT WILL DICTATE BOLT OPTIONS. ID ALSO BE TRYING TO FIND A FEW MAGS THAT WILL WORK . ID LOOK FOR BULGY, WEIGER, GALIL ETC. THOSE TAPCO 223 MAGS MIGHT BE A GOOD WAY TO GO AN THERE THREE PARTS OF 922 COMPLIANCE .

    THE ADVICE ON JUST BUYING A SAGIA AN CONVERTING IT IS GOOD ADVICE IF YOU CAN FIND ONE UNDER A GRAND . THEN ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS A CONVERSION AN MOD THE BULLET GUIDE IF YOU DESIRE TO TAKE MILLSPCK MAGS OR JUST BUY SAGIA 223 MAGS AN LEAVE IT BE.

    MY WEIGER CLONE USES A BULLET GUIDE THAT LOOKS LIKE A 5.45 GUIDE WITH ITS TWIN GROVES IN IT . I HAD TO ADD A LITTEL BEAD OF WELD ON THE FRONT LUG OF A GALIL MAG TO KEEP IT HIGH ENOUGH TO FEED AN NOT JAM INTO THE GUIDE. I HAVE A TAPCO GALIL MAG THAT SEEMS TO FEED FINE EVEN IF THERE IS UP AN DOWN PLAY IN THE FRONT AS IS . I HAVENT SHOT IT MUCH BUT IF THE TAPCO GALIL MAG WORKS OK ILL JUST GET MORE OF THEM . I HAVENT TRIED THE SAR OR CHINEASE MAGS IN 223 AN AVOID THEM . THE GUN WAS BUILT LAST WEEK AN I HAVENT HAD A CHANCE TO SHOOT MORE THAN 10 ROUNDS THROUGH IT YET.

    HOPE FULLY IM HELPING AN NOT CONFUSING YOU LOL

    ALLESENNOGWHT IS PRETTY SHARP ON THESE CONVERSIONS HE WILL STEAR YOU RIGHT.

    The 5.56 case is 4.5 mm longer than the 5.45 case. Some people like to cut the ejector back towards to rear to keep the brass from getting beat up as it is ejected but this is not required.

    INTERESTING THAT IS A NEW ONE TO ME AN IF IT HELPS ID TRY IT. MY WEGIER CLONE BEATS THE CRAP OUT OF MY BRASS . MY 223 VARMINT RIFLE DENTS THE NECK AN I ADDED RUBBER TO THE DUST COVER AN OPEND UP THE PORT TO STOP IT UGELY BUT IT WORKED.

    SAVING BRASS FOR RELOADING IS A BIG DEAL ON THESE IF YOU SHOOT MUCH.

    I WISH I HAD NOT TAPERED THE TIP ON THE BACK SIDE NOW ID LIKE TO TRY MOVING IT BACK NOT SURE HOW IT WILL HELP ???????

    I SUSPSE WORST COMES TO WORST I CAN ALWAYS REPLACE THE RAIL WITH A NEW ONE .

  4. #4
    Scheiße. Mr_Posthumous's Avatar
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    I did one. Good shooter. Lowest recoil of any .223 i have ever shot.

    http://www.gunco.net/forums/f43/223-...ictures-67291/

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    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    I bought two 223 Saigas. One with a 16.3 inch barrel and one with a 20.5 inch barrel. The 16.3 inch barrel was stripped for parts and built into an AK-74 with a new receiver and an AK-74 trunnion. The second one has been stripped for parts. The barrel will be cut to 18 inches and built into a Polish Beryl. The Beryl barrel is longer than an AK-74 barrel and having the longer barrel cut down allows me to build it with front sight block holes not in the barrel as the Beryl doesn't have the front sight all the way at the muzzle. I'm building it using a Polish Tantal trunnion and a new receiver.

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    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Oh the 5.56 case is 5.5 mm longer than the 5.45 case. Not 4.5 mm. I don't know that it will make much difference as a loaded cartridge can be ejected. I use a standard AK-74 ejector or whatever the American rails end up giving me. I don't want to reduce the 5.56 ejector at all. The rim and case head diameter are very small and I want the strongest ejection I can get.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    OK SO YOU WERE REFERING TO TRIMMING THE EJECTER NOT MOVIN THE TIP BACK WARD IN THE RECIVER TOWARD THE REAR OF THE GUN CORRECT????/

    I WAS THINKING IF IT WAS MOVED FORWARD OR BACK IT MIGH NOT HIT THE COVER OR WHAT EVER AS BAD.

    I SHOULD USE A CUSTOM RAIL ON MY NECT BUILD WITH A THE EJECTER STARTIG FORWRAD OF NORMAL AN TRIM IT BACK AN SEE WERE THE LEAST BRASS DAMAGE IS.

    I JUST USE THE STANDARD RAILS TRIMMED TO BARELY CLEAR THE BOLT. THE WEIGER CLONE REALLY SENDS THEM SALING AWAY .

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    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    OK SO YOU WERE REFERING TO TRIMMING THE EJECTER NOT MOVIN THE TIP BACK WARD IN THE RECIVER TOWARD THE REAR OF THE GUN CORRECT????/

    I WAS THINKING IF IT WAS MOVED FORWARD OR BACK IT MIGH NOT HIT THE COVER OR WHAT EVER AS BAD.

    I SHOULD USE A CUSTOM RAIL ON MY NECT BUILD WITH A THE EJECTER STARTIG FORWRAD OF NORMAL AN TRIM IT BACK AN SEE WERE THE LEAST BRASS DAMAGE IS.

    I JUST USE THE STANDARD RAILS TRIMMED TO BARELY CLEAR THE BOLT. THE WEIGER CLONE REALLY SENDS THEM SALING AWAY .
    Some people try to move or grind / cut the ejector towards the rear. Don't trim it shorter at all with 223. The rim is too small. I use the standard position ejector with no mods. I want as much ejector as I can get with 223. Note that the European AK-74 ejector is positioned slightly differently than the 7.62 AKM ejector. In American-made receivers the ejector rail might be a universal type that only requires making shorter to clear the 7.62 bolt slot but has the same front to rear position for all calibers. Note the AK-74 bolt head is a different length than the AKM and the extractors are different types and the rims are different diameters. Just moving the ejector back because the case is barely slightly longer may not help anything. also the farther back the bolt goes, the slower it is moving against the spring until it stops and returns. If I wanted to get really picky I could measure the position of the 223 Saiga ejector. The 5.56 Bulgarian ejector might be completely different though. K-var says Romania uses the same ejector rail for 5.45 and 5.56. My 223 Saiga ejector sticks out into the receiver farther than the Romanian 5.45 ejector.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    hmmmm I used a polish rail set on my weiger clone an a tapco universial on the others.

    is the 223 an 5.56 rear ward in the reciver vs a 7.62????

    I had honestly really never tought about it being in a different location until this thread.

    id like to know how far the tip is from the end of the reciver or breach face on a 223

    the weiger clone really dents the case in the middle while my romy varmint set up dings the shoulder .

    ill have to compare the two. an see were there positioned . either way tere likely going to hit . the romy bolt has a extracter much like a 5.45 were the bolt is cut away around it. so the different style of extracter might be the big difference.

  10. #10
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    I'd have to measure the 223 Saiga ejector position. The 7.62 Saiga ejector is different from the AKM ejector as is the length of the bolt head and type of ejector. The 5.45 AK-74 ejector is slightly different from the front than the 7.62 AKM. I have the numbers somewhere, but the difference is so small it shouldn't matter. US-made receivers and rails have the ejectors in the same position, just trimmed to clear whatever bolt is used.

    A big issue in a 223 AK is the 223 rim diameter is very small. Reducing or moving the ejector is risky. I want as much ejector as I can get with the 223 case head. I don't trim or move the ejector position at all.

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