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Thread: Who all has jumped on the Sub-Gun kit bandwagon ?

  1. #21
    Gunco Rookie Gonefission's Avatar
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    I jumped on the bandwagon, I was lucky enough to get in on the Nartron PPSH group buy. Now I am just wondering how in the hell I am going to build it.

    Also, just register all these as SBR's and you don't have to worry about the US parts. Eventhough I don't think there is any reason to worry in the first place.
    C&R License Holder
    NRA Member View my meager gun collection online at http://www.Gonefission.net

  2. #22
    RIP Sangrun Hunter's Avatar
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    You can always do a barrel extension as I plan to do on the Suomi.

  3. #23
    Red Jacket Firearms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SangRun Hunter
    You ought to think about a Suomi too. If you get a tube form Prexis it would be a cinch for you and your shop to smack one of those together.
    Yeah , if I could find a kit that wasn't cut to shit. Well , if anyone comes across one in good good ,buildable shape .....
    Will Hayden, RedJacket Firearms
    www.Redstick-Firearms.com

  4. #24
    RIP Sangrun Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Jacket Firearms
    Yeah , if I could find a kit that wasn't cut to shit. Well , if anyone comes across one in good good ,buildable shape .....

    Shoot man.... Most of what you need is there and I can see a little mill work to make a few parts. The front filler is one that wil be hard, but the rest is easy if you start with a Prexis/sten tube and the tubes are very nice.

  5. #25
    Gunco Member C_Kassidy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donvito
    Trying to get folks in trouble? You are WRONG!.

    The "sporting purposes" clause of the 1968 GCA is applied, if the gun fails it is not allowed for import... consiquently a domestic build of the same is not allowed either if using more than 10 parts off of the ATF parts list.

    Read up a bit before dispensing your advice... here's a good place to start http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu...i_auto_faq.txt.

    922r was enacted in 11/90. 922v was the AWB of 1994.

    DON'T FOLLOW THIS GUYS ADVICE!
    It would seem that I owe this guy an apology. Apparently there are required US parts for these builds. However, it did not give him the right to come at me with an attitude like he did. But enough of that. I came across this post on another board while I was researching info for my Sten MK III build.
    OK, a few things up front.

    ALL shotguns or semiautomatic rifles are subject to the "parts
    compliance" rules. ALL of them -- even a Colt made AR15. ATFE has
    made a list of 20 types of parts, and said that if a shogun or
    semiauto rifle uses more than 10 of them, it must be built into a
    configuration that would be acceptable for importation (i.e.,
    whatever ATFE decides is "sporting" THAT day).

    Luckily, there aren't that many parts in a MkIII based semiauto build
    that have to be counted when figuring the parts compliance. (By the
    way, if you build it as a registered Short Barrelled Rifle or Any
    Other Weapon, or you build it as a pistol -- the "sporting"
    and "imported parts" crap doesn't apply to either pistols or
    registered NFA weapons.)

    The parts that would apply are:

    1. Barrel

    2. Receiver (you have to make a new one anyway, as the original was
    destroyed before importation was authorized)

    3. Bolt

    4. Trigger group housing

    5. Buttstock

    6. Trigger

    7. Hammer (required in a semiauto build, not present in the original)

    8. Disconnector (i.e., "tripping lever")

    9. Sear

    10. Magazine body

    11. Magazine follower

    12. Magazine floorplate

    13. Barrel trunions (AFAIK, they count both of them as being a set
    that makes up one item, and if either one is imported, teh set is
    considered "imported")

    Forget what you have heard about modifying a part "makes" it "US
    made". ATFE has been horribly inconsistant on how much change they
    think is necessary. Just go all out with replacement, as they CAN'T
    quibble about that.

    So, even if you managed to convert your original bolt and trunions to
    work in a legal semiauto configuration, you only need to come up with
    three of these parts that aren't "imported". Well, the receiver
    AUTOMATICALLY is going to be "US made", as YOU are going to make it.
    So you just have to figure out how to drop two more "imported" parts,
    and you can ignore ATFE's ever-changing definition of "sporting".

    Now, as for what ATFE wants to see in a semiautomatic Sten build so
    they don't just call it a machinegun. . .

    1. A reduced diameter receiver tube, so that an unmodified original
    bolt WILL NOT FIT. You can lathe down your bolt, but it is hard to
    maintain concentricity unless you have it locked in to a BEEFY
    lathe. It also means your barrel trunions will need to be reduce in
    OD, but that's easier than the bolt.

    2. A repositioned cocking handle track. This prevents you from just
    lathing a full-auto bolt down and dropping it in. Of course, you
    could try and drill a new hole in the bolt for the bolt handle to fit
    in. . .

    3. A physical block in the receiver so that a lathed down full auto
    bolt with a repositioned bolt handle STILL will not chamber a round.
    One way they like is to weld a 1" long section of drill rod at top
    dead center right next to teh chamber. NOW, in addition to lathing
    down the bolt and repositioning the bolt handle, you have to mill a
    slot for that block to fit in, so the bolt goes all teh way forward.

    4. Jigger the fire control group so as to disable automatic
    functioning even if you did all that previous work on a full auto
    bolt. You can either weld teh selector in teh SEMI ("R"
    for "repetitive") setting, OR you can weld a block inside the trigger
    group housing that prevents the tripping lever to move forward when
    the selector is set to "A" ("automatic"). If that tripping lever
    cannot move forward, the sear and trigger do not move, either.

    5. It MUST fire from a closed bolt. (Technically, one could argue
    that it is theoretically possible to design an open bolt system that
    ATFE judges to be not "readily restored" to automatic fire -- but no
    one has succeeded since 1983 or so in doing so.

    6. It MUST have a seperate and moving firing pin, and ignition
    controlled either by a striker system (where the firing pin is held
    back by teh sear) or a hammer system (where the firing pin "floats",
    generally under weak counterpressure from a spring, and is smacked by
    a hammer).

    7. As a consequence of #5 & 6, you must mill the feed ribs that
    strip rounds from the magazine so that they do not protrude forward
    of teh bolt face where the case head sits. That is to keep you from
    gluing your firing pin in the forward position. With the feed lips
    flush, the rim of teh round will hang up on the side of the firing
    pin and the gun jams if you tried that.

    With all teh concerns that need to be met, actually using teh
    original bolt is probably more difficult that making a new one (which
    would help your "parts count" issue.) Likewise, the barrel trunions
    are easy to make, and their replacement with US-made new trunions
    would ALSO help your parts count. Between the bolt, trunions, and
    receiver, you would have all the "compliance parts" you need.

    Rick
    I hope this info helps. I never claimed to be an expert at this as I think this is a relatively new field for most people as it is for me. I just recently decided to step away from AK's and try something a bit different.

  6. #26
    Gunco Member donvito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Kassidy
    It would seem that I owe this guy an apology. Apparently there are required US parts for these builds. However, it did not give him the right to come at me with an attitude like he did. But enough of that. I came across this post on another board while I was researching info for my Sten MK III build.


    I hope this info helps. I never claimed to be an expert at this as I think this is a relatively new field for most people as it is for me. I just recently decided to step away from AK's and try something a bit different.
    Nah... you giving out advise that will land folks in legal trouble while purporting to know what you're talking about is no reason at all to be stern with a warning to others...

  7. #27
    Gunco Regular tarawa's Avatar
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    I have a Beretta, 3 Suomis, Sten MkII, dozen Sten MkIIIs, MP38, MG 42 and another on order.
    gtbehary........ ak builder, hack machinist, nuclear worker and violin huckster!

  8. #28
    Gunco Member aloharover's Avatar
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    I soooo want to get a Sterling kit and try my hand at a semi build.
    While we were up in Northern Iraq working with the Kurds we picked up a handfull of Sterlings (50 to 75$ ea) and I can't believe how impressive they were. Both fun to shoot and pretty damn accurate. I have fired an MP-5 before and I would place the Sterling on the same playing field.

    Unfortunately I had a server crash over the weekend, need to get it rebuilt and then can post up some video links of us playing with the subs. great times

    Pete
    U.S. Army (Ret)
    NRA for Life

  9. #29
    Gunco Veteran SA58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonefission
    I jumped on the bandwagon, I was lucky enough to get in on the Nartron PPSH group buy. Now I am just wondering how in the hell I am going to build it.

    Also, just register all these as SBR's and you don't have to worry about the US parts. Eventhough I don't think there is any reason to worry in the first place.
    ...your forgetting that not everybody can just SBR their pieces due to local law. (...and if one more person tells me to 'just move then', I'm going to reach through the monitor and stab them in the eye-ball)
    ...I'm not tense! Just terribly, terribly alert.

  10. #30
    Gunco Irregular Grendeljaeger's Avatar
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    I haven't jumped yet but someone posted a link to the Dealers Showroom in a M3a1 thread and I was looking around there and found a URU/FAU kit there for $175. The interesting thing about these kits are that they were brand new police guns that they just removed the tubes from. Since they were police weapons they were SMG/Carbine models and came with both a 19" barrel and a semi auto trigger function. They are in the original boxes with all the accesories. This would be a good but obscure weapon to try a semi build on.
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    “it is dangerous to be right in matters about which the established authorities are wrong” Voltaire

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