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Thread: Q: Sten MKIII questions about a build I'm contemplating (some California Specific)

  1. #1
    Gunco Rookie gunn's Avatar
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    Default Q: Sten MKIII questions about a build I'm contemplating (some California Specific)

    Hi,
    I just received my Sten parts kit (complete with short barrel) and I'm looking at what my next steps should be.

    I've asked a few questions on Calguns (California specific gun enthusiast site) but haven't received that many answers). I'm hoping you folks can help me out here.

    Please keep in mind that first preference is to build a STEN carbine vs. a pistol, I cannot go SBR in this state, and I must worry about falling in as an assault weapon.

    My second preference is to keep this build as cheap as possible while keeping the fab work to a minimum. This means I plan to buy an 80% receiver, a semi-auto kit, and dremel/mill + weld + rivet from there.

    Right now, all I have in my possession is a STEN MKIII parts kit from thedealershowroom.com.

    Q1: What are the differences between the SemiAutosten.com kit and the kit available from Indianapolis Ordinance?
    Indianapolis Ordnance - STEN MK3
    - It looks like the I/O kit requires you to buy a seperate receiver: $250 + $100 or $150 (vented or not).
    - "The ejection and sear ports are scribed directly on the steel': Does this mean that there are grooves on the metal tube (and not just paper outlines glued to the tube to follow) when it comes to cutting the ports? If so, this would be my first preference.
    - Is I/O the source for the "microtabbed receiver" that is referenced by Zendick in the 5th post of this thread? (I already tried to PM this guy with no response)
    Surplusrifleforum.com • View topic - Sten ?

    Q: I have read that the SemiAutoSten kits used to have FTF/FTE problems but they have since been resolved by the new owner with new hammers & springs. Someone else verified this for me on Calguns.net. Do the Indianapolis Ordinance kits have the same feeding issues? I'm looking for original experience here.
    Prexis: Semi-Auto Conversion
    [Prexis is a reseller of the SAS3 kit]

    Q: Are there any other semi auto build kits I should consider?
    - Much as though I would like to build my own, I don't have the expertise to go all out here and mill my own bolt.
    - I also have seen the plans to use an AR trigger assembly, hammer, and firing pin setup. These too would require bolt mods and I'm not sure I'm up to it.
    -----
    I realize that there are two options for my barrel if I want to build a carbine.
    * Buy a 16" carbine barrel OR
    * weld/silver solder a tube to around the shorty barrel much like how 12.5" shorty AR barrels are extended to the legal length with USGI muzzle brakes.

    Q: If I go with the 16" Indianapolis Ordinance Barrel ($99 vs $120 @ Prexis.com), will I have problems fitting this barrel in the trunions supplied with the Semi Auto Sten kit?
    - Or should I just go with the IO barrel for the IO kit and the Prexis/SAS barrel for the SAS3 kit.

    Q: This is more of a California Specific Question: would the barrel extension over the short original barrel qualify as "flash hider" or does the flash just keep travelling down the extension and out the tube?
    - The reason I ask is because California has the stupid SB23 law.
    - Even though I don't have a pistol grip (I would weld something to close up the hole on the metal triangle attached to the stock so there's no confusion), having a "flash hider" on a semiautomatic w/ a detachable
    - Even if it DOES qualify as a flash hider, there are ways around this. I could simply make my STEN a "non-detachable" magazine by building some kind of "bullet button" for the magazine release. This would be similar to the workarounds for AR-15s that you see in CA nowadays.
    Senate Bill 23 Assault Weapon Characteristics - Bureau of Firearms - California Dept. of Justice - Office of the Attorney General
    Bullet Button Mag-LockKit for AR15 [668] - $25.00 : Ten Percent Firearms, The Firearms Experts

    My last question involves inadvertant constructive possession of a NFA weapon.

    Q: Before I take possesion of any receiver or receiver kit, I should weld the extension on my factory barrel or dispose of it, right? I'm worried about inadvertantly having all the bits for an SBR.
    - Or, is the timing that I cannot have a COMPLETED receiver and short barrel in my possesion at the same time.

    Q: Before I take possesion of any receiver or receiver kit, I should dispose of the original factory bolt?
    - My concern is that I don't want to inadvertantly create a situation where I have both an evil bolt and a compatible receiver. Since both build kits aren't compatible with the original bolt, I should be OK, right?


    For the sake of completeness, I understand I can build a "STEN pistol" as well.
    I can use the original barrel but will still need a semi auto bolt and receiver.
    I will also need to make sure that the stock is no longer attachable and for California, I will need to make a "bullet button" for the magazine release.

    Thanks in advance for all of your help. I'm really looking forward to this challenge even though i recognize a HiPoint carbine would be much, much cheaper

    Regards,
    -g

  2. #2
    THE 9mm ADDICT MUSIBIKE's Avatar
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    First thing I would do is clean your STEN SMG demilled kit. Get the trigger housing and prepare it first. Drop the internals out of it.

    I have a complete cleaning procedure for the STEN trigger housing in my Yahoo STENS group. With PICS. I used a STEN MKV there. But, the same steps pretty much.

    Go there and follow it step by step.

    MUSIBIKE


    Quote Originally Posted by gunn View Post
    Hi,
    I just received my Sten parts kit (complete with short barrel) and I'm looking at what my next steps should be.

    I've asked a few questions on Calguns (California specific gun enthusiast site) but haven't received that many answers). I'm hoping you folks can help me out here.

    Please keep in mind that first preference is to build a STEN carbine vs. a pistol, I cannot go SBR in this state, and I must worry about falling in as an assault weapon.

    My second preference is to keep this build as cheap as possible while keeping the fab work to a minimum. This means I plan to buy an 80% receiver, a semi-auto kit, and dremel/mill + weld + rivet from there.

    Right now, all I have in my possession is a STEN MKIII parts kit from thedealershowroom.com.

    Q1: What are the differences between the SemiAutosten.com kit and the kit available from Indianapolis Ordinance?
    Indianapolis Ordnance - STEN MK3
    - It looks like the I/O kit requires you to buy a seperate receiver: $250 + $100 or $150 (vented or not).
    - "The ejection and sear ports are scribed directly on the steel': Does this mean that there are grooves on the metal tube (and not just paper outlines glued to the tube to follow) when it comes to cutting the ports? If so, this would be my first preference.
    - Is I/O the source for the "microtabbed receiver" that is referenced by Zendick in the 5th post of this thread? (I already tried to PM this guy with no response)
    Surplusrifleforum.com • View topic - Sten ?

    Q: I have read that the SemiAutoSten kits used to have FTF/FTE problems but they have since been resolved by the new owner with new hammers & springs. Someone else verified this for me on Calguns.net. Do the Indianapolis Ordinance kits have the same feeding issues? I'm looking for original experience here.
    Prexis: Semi-Auto Conversion
    [Prexis is a reseller of the SAS3 kit]

    Q: Are there any other semi auto build kits I should consider?
    - Much as though I would like to build my own, I don't have the expertise to go all out here and mill my own bolt.
    - I also have seen the plans to use an AR trigger assembly, hammer, and firing pin setup. These too would require bolt mods and I'm not sure I'm up to it.
    -----
    I realize that there are two options for my barrel if I want to build a carbine.
    * Buy a 16" carbine barrel OR
    * weld/silver solder a tube to around the shorty barrel much like how 12.5" shorty AR barrels are extended to the legal length with USGI muzzle brakes.

    Q: If I go with the 16" Indianapolis Ordinance Barrel ($99 vs $120 @ Prexis.com), will I have problems fitting this barrel in the trunions supplied with the Semi Auto Sten kit?
    - Or should I just go with the IO barrel for the IO kit and the Prexis/SAS barrel for the SAS3 kit.

    Q: This is more of a California Specific Question: would the barrel extension over the short original barrel qualify as "flash hider" or does the flash just keep travelling down the extension and out the tube?
    - The reason I ask is because California has the stupid SB23 law.
    - Even though I don't have a pistol grip (I would weld something to close up the hole on the metal triangle attached to the stock so there's no confusion), having a "flash hider" on a semiautomatic w/ a detachable
    - Even if it DOES qualify as a flash hider, there are ways around this. I could simply make my STEN a "non-detachable" magazine by building some kind of "bullet button" for the magazine release. This would be similar to the workarounds for AR-15s that you see in CA nowadays.
    Senate Bill 23 Assault Weapon Characteristics - Bureau of Firearms - California Dept. of Justice - Office of the Attorney General
    Bullet Button Mag-LockKit for AR15 [668] - $25.00 : Ten Percent Firearms, The Firearms Experts

    My last question involves inadvertant constructive possession of a NFA weapon.

    Q: Before I take possesion of any receiver or receiver kit, I should weld the extension on my factory barrel or dispose of it, right? I'm worried about inadvertantly having all the bits for an SBR.
    - Or, is the timing that I cannot have a COMPLETED receiver and short barrel in my possesion at the same time.

    Q: Before I take possesion of any receiver or receiver kit, I should dispose of the original factory bolt?
    - My concern is that I don't want to inadvertantly create a situation where I have both an evil bolt and a compatible receiver. Since both build kits aren't compatible with the original bolt, I should be OK, right?


    For the sake of completeness, I understand I can build a "STEN pistol" as well.
    I can use the original barrel but will still need a semi auto bolt and receiver.
    I will also need to make sure that the stock is no longer attachable and for California, I will need to make a "bullet button" for the magazine release.

    Thanks in advance for all of your help. I'm really looking forward to this challenge even though i recognize a HiPoint carbine would be much, much cheaper

    Regards,
    -g

  3. #3
    aka: SDK1968 dutigaf's Avatar
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    yep musibike is the man on stens and ive used most of his tips and tricks in my sten builds that you see on this site..

    you may just try the search button and read some of the sten threads that are here.. its all pretty well covered between what Musibike just gave you and what ACmech and me have built on them..
    say what you mean & mean what you say


  4. #4
    Gunco Rookie gunn's Avatar
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    Musibike:
    Thank you very much for this first step. I admit it took a little bit of searching
    to find since was expecting a file or a message with inline images

    HOW TO CLEAN A STEN TRIGGER GROUP by Musibike.
    Filed under "STEN SEMI MKV BUILD" in the photo albums of the "STENS" Yahoo group.
    http://sports.ph.groups.yahoo.com/gr...os/browse/1e39

    I also found some good recommendations for the Indianapolis Ordinance kits on

    Weaponeer.net. I will likely go with this guy
    http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum...?TID=5365&PN=1

    I was able to answer my other questions about the scribing and the kits by
    contacting IO directly. For others who may follow in my footsteps, here are the
    results of my Q&A session with Indianapolis Ordinance.

    Q: What cuts to I need to make to the vented receiver to complete this tube?
    A: The cuts are already outlined for you with grooves that you can easily cut. IO
    has a scribing tool that will put the marks on the barrel.

    Q: Can I use a dremel or is a milling machine necessary?
    A: The metal of the receiver is quite thin so a dremel is sufficient to cut the tube.

    Q: Does the vented receiver include a sight rail?
    A: IO has sight rails available but not on the vented receiver tube. Most people will just fab a simple sight by welding a metal "stick" on the tips of the receiver.
    Gunn Notes: I also figured I could attach a dovetail scope rail from my 10/22 onto the top of the receiver as well depending on how ghetto I want this to look

    Q: Does any work need to be done to the 16" barrel if I buy it from IO (Item # MK3B16)?
    A: The barrel is new, pre-cut, and pre-chambered, and ready to install. All you need to do is drill out the front barrel bushing (the one you salvaged from the original parts kit).

    Q: BTW, what parts am I really salvaging from the original parts kit?
    Rear stock, trigger group, front barrel bushing, and barrel (if you plan to use the extension)

    Q: Where do the rivets go?
    A: There are 11 total... 4 (or 6) are used to hold the front barrel bushing.

    Q: What's the easiest way to disassemble the front bushing and barrel from the parts kit?
    A: A bench grinder can be used to grind off the rivet heads. A hammer & punch can then be used to pop the rivets out and free the barrel/bushing.

    Q: I live in CA and have screwy rules I need to follow. One of them is that I can't have a flash supressor attached to a semi auto centerfire rifle with a detachable magazine. In your personal opinion, could you see the Cal DOJ counting the "barrel extension" as a "flash supressor" since it does allow more of the powder to be burnt up before the bullet leaves the barrel.
    A: I have no idea. After checking out my sample, the ATF considered my barrel extension, since it was permanently attached to the original barrel, as part of a single >16" barrel. You might want to call the CalDOJ about this one.

    Q: Do I need to check the headspacing in this design? Is there anything else I need to look out for in the build?
    A: Headspacing is a function of the depth of the bolt. Our design takes care of that for you. The one thing you need to make sure of though is that the rear bushing is aligned properly so that the chamber is at the proper height to receive the bullet from the magazine.

    "For a person with basic welding & cutting skills, this project should take 4-5 hours"
    BTW, the design is "quite different" from the one available from SemiAutoStens.com.
    The person i spoke with (Jason?) was quite proud that he ran 2K rounds through the sample he sent to the ATF w/o any problems.

    After talking to IO, I understand now that this is pretty much a new semi auto carbine "that looks" like a STEN. Even so, I'm looking forward to this build.
    -g

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