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Scorpion Pistol Reweld

12K views 48 replies 16 participants last post by  Winn R 
#1 ·
For those who suspected that the Czechoslovakians had a complexity complex involving taking rather simple things and making them them unbearably difficult and that this complex was most clearly seen in their weaponry; we bring you the the Vz61 Scorpion pistol.


It shoots a minuscule cartridge, the 32 acp, and is simple blowback. I have given up counting the springs and pins. It makes no difference how many are lost, they multiply like Tribbles and still have no apparent home.


The workings of the pistol have been called elegant. If so it's elegant like the French chachat machine gun with so many parts it would never work. Generally the left side of the pistol is shown. This is because they couldn't figure out how to keep the hammer axis pin in place without jamming an external piece of sheet metal on the right side. A single grain of sand could bring the trigger unit (the original has 10 pieces) to a screeching halt. And I love the 150 meter sight setting. It's so useful. The rate reducer in the full auto version was a weight bouncing up and down in the pistol grip. Add that to the problems of controlling a machine pistol!!!


It just fed a complete mag, finally, so I'll start a thread. Pics to follow.
 
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#4 ·
This is the simple, semi auto version.



Markp -- it would certainly be alot more useful in .380. And not that different.

I've got to confess it was a Donald Hamilton, Matt Helm, book read when I was about 12 that turned me on to this gun. Our hero was told not to shoot it from the hip or he'd be blinded by the hot casings. By firing with it held at eye level he kills the roomful of dumb Commie terrorists who macho hold theirs at the waist. I love it when I get to own an obscure gun I read about as a kid. And who knows -- I'll put a box or two through it tomorrow and maybe it even shoots well.
 
#5 ·
Nice! That's the kind of skill I wish I had. Congrats!

Do your trained eyes see any chance a Vz. 61 could be "converted" into a Vz. 68 (9x19mm Parabellum) or Vz. 82 (9x18mm Makarov)?

A 9mm version would be a potent pistol.
 
#8 ·
Do your trained eyes see any chance a Vz. 61 could be "converted" into a Vz. 68 (9x19mm Parabellum) or Vz. 82 (9x18mm Makarov)?

A 9mm version would be a potent pistol.
It's a wrap around bolt blowback, predates the Uzi and Mac. Steve, just eyeballing it, it would be hard to get any more than a 9x17 (kurtz) size with out getting everything bigger.

Considering that it came in all the other calibers, it would seem that this would be an easy request to get one in the "right" caliber. (9x19 Para)
The 68 was a bit longer and wider than the 61. The mag was straight and It made me thinking of converting stenmags to fit...
I knew General Werbell when the Mac was being converted to heavier calibers. They gave up on using the original .380 sized components and started over. I'm not surprised the same thing happened here.

The curved 32 acp mag is from the stack set up where the rim falls into the extractor groove. Another weird thing!!
 
#6 ·
Ya, I wanted one as a kid too. I can't tell you how tempted I was to try to abscond with the one in the museum in Quebec as a young teenager... fortunately, I decided getting arrested in Canada wasn't worth it to acquire a scorpion at 16. The Citadel was undergoing construction and the mickey mouse security wasn't very impressive. LOL, knowing my luck the barrel was welded shut. :) I was a little rough around the edges 25 years ago, turned out ok though.

Considering that it came in all the other calibers, it would seem that this would be an easy request to get one in the "right" caliber. (9x19 Para)
 
#7 ·
Had a chance to take a look at a Vz68 in Praha, they are rare there because they were mainly produced for export. The 68 was a bit longer and wider than the 61. But a nice gun, and I've tried for a couple of years now to get one. The mag was straight and It made me thinking of converting stenmags to fit...
 
#9 ·
This is what we start with.




This is the idea of where we're going.





Fortunately, the government has decreed that, much like the AR 15, the receiver is the part that holds the fire control group. It is a delicately machined housing cut up badly with welding torches. It does however, have straight sides which make re-welding somewhat simpler.

The magazine sets the spacing for the front cut, an 8mm rod in the place of the safety for the rear cut, the upper for the overall length. The middle cut through the trigger opening is the guess: 1.47” oc between hammer and trigger axis pins produces a pistol that works. Please, if someone has a store bought receiver post the center to center dimensions.
 
#10 ·
The legal issues, as always, first. Since we have a trigger, hammer, bolt, movable firing pin; conversion to semiautomatic only is simple. Although the semi auto scorpion model currently sold has the fully automatic sear pin in place (they call it a hammer block), it seems simplest to me to treat the legalities in the same manner as the AK-47. Just leave out the third hole. If some one figures out why this pin is needed on a semi, let us know. The disconnecter leg can be removed. Internet wisdom is all over the place on the folding stock – I set it up so a machining operation would be required to fit it.
 
#13 ·
As much as I'd like to agree....

My wife just fired a 20 round mag through it. She got a kick out of it; they are fun to shoot.

But I put a little too much room in the mag well and unless forward pressure is put on the mag there is a failure to feed. Happened twice with her.

Need to weld a bead front high and rear low then back in the mill.
 
#14 ·
Well! Working without dimensions and you screwed it up? ;)

Tsk, tsk, tsk!

Seems to me you did do excellent work, it was the "psychic engineering" where you dropped the ball.
 
#17 ·
The procedures will be shown below. A milling machine is an absolutely required piece of equipment for this build. Depending upon where the torch cuts were made, the machining runs from challenging to difficult. The most reasonable way of doing this project is to buy the receiver already machined.

It is interesting that I could uncover no thread anywhere showing a re-weld started and finishing with an operating pistol. I told Max about this one and no one else -- I wasn't sure it was going to work!
 
#19 ·
Thanks Dave -- CWtoyota's thread I saw but I didn't see ezfeed's. I'll go back and look again.
 
#23 ·
I think he removed all the pics Winn. Was ther one day and gone the next. I guess a couple of guys must have gave him some grief for looks and he decided to pull them and maybe the thread. I don't go over there much anymore. I was really looking forward to building mine, but ended up selling it. the factory guns end up being a good value. And if you wanted to SBR it, all you would have to do is make a mount for the stock. It is good to see there are still people willing to go to the trouble to reweld one.
 
#20 ·
The ejector comes out first then the mag release and bolt hold open.

There are flat surfaces which make things easier but the metal walls are very thin.



My apologies to traditionalists who want them the way they came. This one required much less internal machining to make it work however the cost was removal of a bolt lock safety. I've treated those who propose leaving parts out of guns with scorn; I now have my comeuppance. The bouncing weight in the handgrip has been left out, the hammer block pin was omitted, I'll try to adapt the trigger axis pin to an internal retainer and loose the external retainer, and the trigger axis pin is held in place with hitch pins!
 

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#22 ·
With some of the cuts through .050 walls, alignment problems are hard to straighten out.





A few random comments. Protect the threads in the receiver which hold the handgrip. A 15mm x 1 tap will straighten them out if needed.The barrel has to be pressed in place. My barrel took some lathe work. Machining on the inside of the receiver may not duplicate the original (some of the cuts baffled me) and alternate methods of holding the trigger pin in place may be needed. I used neoprene washers first then hitch pins. The mag housing has a cut through it and must be dead on to feed. A 1/8” bolt will hold the two pieces of the body together temporarily.
 
#26 ·
Thanks Max.

I should have said more about the barrel. They are a bit of a problem. A few thousands had to come off in the lathe. The barrel pin is a bugger to get in and it's not obvious when the barrel is in the right place.

I spaced the barrel by allowing the bolt to contact the upper receiver. When a slip of paper was caught the barrel was in far enough!

I was uncomfortable with the rig in a press so it went in upside down between the padded jaws of a vice. I turned a brass gas fitting to the chamber then drove it with a rod. It took some substantial persuasion.
 
#31 ·
A few thousands had to come off in the lathe.

The barrel pin is a bugger to get in and it's not obvious when the barrel is in the right place.

I spaced the barrel by allowing the bolt to contact the upper receiver. When a slip of paper was caught the barrel was in far enough!

I was uncomfortable with the rig in a press so it went in upside down between the padded jaws of a vice. I turned a brass gas fitting to the chamber then drove it with a rod. It took some substantial persuasion.
There was .008 interference. I turned it down to .002". Measure the journal and your barrel. If you've got pin gages it makes it easier.

Figure out where the barrel needs to go to with the bolt. Ideally the bolt should hit the receiver and head space right. I don't have 32 acp gauges so I set it up so the bolt hit the receiver and cartridge at the same time. Since its a blow back with a spring on the floating firing pin -- anyway I've had no problems.

Its more comfortable for me to "feel" a barrel with a hammer than a press. Since the chamber end is delicate the coin seperater might not work. I played with a couple of pieces of brass -- the gadget is in the shop, I'll get a picture.

Drive the barrel into the right place -- top and bottom count so rotational right place too. drill out the pin hole. bang the pin in.
 
#28 ·
I just watched "Body of Lies".

One of the early scenes has DiCaprio at a house in the sticks versus a bunch of Arab terrorists.

He was shooting one of these things! Hollywood fake shot up bodies looked like they were hit with 50 calibers though!
 
#29 ·


The magwell opening is rather unforgiving.

It it small but provides the only support -- mags are not under tension as in the AK. To prevent mag wobble it has to fit right top, bottom and center.

Paint it with dycem and stuff and file. If too loose, the best correction seems to be weld beads and more milling.
 
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