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Thread: Tube guns of the Polish resistance

  1. #1
    Gunco Member chuangtzu's Avatar
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    Default Tube guns of the Polish resistance

    Does anybody know where to find more info on either the https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Błyskawica_submachine_gun or the https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/KIS_(weapon)?

    I know it's a long shot, but if anyone knows where in the world a copy of the original plans are, even if they're sitting in a museum somewhere in Poland, I'd be interested in finding that out too...

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    Gunco Veteran Viper Dude's Avatar
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    Hello chuangtzu,
    Could you post the wikipedia pics here ??? I couldn't see them on that link.

    This underground resistance tube gun seems to be a screw-build Sten variation. The Sten and MP-40 used very similar bolts based upon the German MP-18 and 28 series.

    VD

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    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
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    Here's the pics, in the order of the links above.
    The first one looks kind of like a copy of a STEN but with a vertical mag & folding stock, and the second looks like a modded STEN.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

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    Gunco Veteran Viper Dude's Avatar
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    Thanks for the pics Coils !!!!
    One version looks like a close copy of the Sten Mk II. The other reminds me of the post war Belgium M.I.53. The Belgium SMG however had a sliding wire stock.

    VD

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    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    I may have some thing about them in some Polish firearms books. They are written in Polish and I don't read Polish but some of the books have some interesting designs. One book is a book of designing and making firearms. It has a few pics but it's not very technical.

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    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Hymn of the Polish Underground

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    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Arsenal Polish Underground Sources of acquisition of weapons by members of the Polish underground and guerrilla units were a few In the first period was the basis for equipment hidden by Polish soldiers in September 1939, or by leaving them on the battlefields. In many cases, gun repairs required due to poor security and the conditions in which they resided for several, several months, and often the damage done just before the disarmament (eg, removing and disposing of locks). The photos of the early conspiracy outweighs Mauser rifle system, light machine gun Browning wz. 28th Most were relatively small arms, easy to hide, and besides, in a number in front of the war, also in private hands. Also used a hunting weapon, as well as older, more pierwszowojenne copies, traced sometimes in homes and barns. On the eastern areas of the Second Republic was a complement to the resources of weapons left by the retreating equipment in a panic in June 1941 the Red Army. With time, an important part of the arsenal began to create the prey, including that generated in the specific disarmament actions. It came from the German (and other) members of various police organizations and police, civil servants of various departments and offices of the occupation, and finally the colonists, most of whom were armed. There were also weapons received numerous branches kolaboranckich soldiers recruited from Soviet citizens who had such Soviet weapons. Then he fed an underground arsenal of weapons captured in the regular German formations, both the Wehrmacht and the SS, especially when the front in 1944 approached the Polish and line the enemy units were "at hand". A certain number of weapons purchased on the black market - were especially handguns, but also from reaching the heavier weapons, including machine guns. As you come into the duration of the war, Polish, more and more (but never in sufficient quantities) to the discharge of weapons. Were especially desirable machine guns, which, in an irregular war, guerrilla, consisting largely of organizing ambushes, were of paramount importance. Strongly dominated by English Steny Mk II, and the pictures from 1944 can be seen even uniformly armed forces in these pistols. Much less was the American thompsonów M1928 A1. 45 inch, in a small amount dropped peemy UD 9 mm caliber M1942, also were placed individually raisingi. 45 cal. Among the heavier weapons Bren light machine gun should be mentioned, antitank guns, antitank grenade launchers Boys and PIAT, which proved to be extremely useful during the Warsaw Uprising. It is worth mentioning that among the dropping of arms They brought the weapons captured German and Italian (eg peemy Beretta). Finally, an important source of supply in the battle was the production of underground resources. Mass-produced grenades, especially sidolówki and Filipinki. Also built hundreds of flame-throwers, some of which were used during the Warsaw Uprising. The biggest challenge was, however, production of machine guns, requiring adequate technical facilities, materials, and finally experienced engineering staff. The most widely-produced copies of the British Sten Mk II, which were made in several factories in the country, besides, developed its own model peemu - Lightning. Apart from them should be mentioned KIS and KOP-PAL. The basis of course, was an underground arsenal of diverse arms and grenades, but incidentally also used heavy equipment. This occurred during the fighting in Warsaw during the uprising, where he captured armored vehicles in addition to built a car of his own invention - "Winnie".

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    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Polish KOP-PAL Firearm Technical Trivia, October 2000 Muzeum Wojska Polskiego w Warszawie Polish machine pistol with a conspiratorial organization PAL studio in Warsaw. Produced from 1943. The weapon operates on the principle of free lock recoil, is supplied with a box magazine, whose cast is placed horizontally on the left side arms. Peem had screwed the flask. Enclosed solid perforated barrel guard; system consisted peemu sight ring on the barrel embedded flies and przeziernikowego sight on receiver. Grip with wooden covers. A copy of the magazine and is devoid of the flask. On receiver's signature with the name and year of manufacture of weapons - "KOP-PAL 1944" and its serial number - 00814th Weapons of mass is 3.30 kg, length 860mm, caliber 9mm. In 1976 the street Lelechowskiej 9 in Warsaw discovered a cache of occupation in which there were sketches and tools for semi-finished production peemu unknown. The event was described in the press, so that witnesses have come forward. Recognized in the mysterious discovery machine gun KOP-PAL, and also told the story associated with its creation. The decision to design and implement the production of machine-gun was taken by management commands Defenders Polish (from 1943 Polish People's Army), underground organization, which like other troubled shortage of automatic weapons. Technical plans have already been made in 1941, according to the design engineers, Michael Adamowicz and Stefan Engler. As a result of dramatic events that affected KOP, production started only in early 1943. The weapon was produced in a workshop on the street in Wola Gniewkowskiej 1a; team leader was Edward Włoczkowski, and one of the people involved in the production of Stephen Nawrocki, Raised gunsmith with experience in constructing "suchedniowskich" Sten. Probably he was the creator of the second project of weapons. To this day, preserved in an original copy, which was sent to the MWP of the Military Technical Academy (figured there as anonymous underground weapons manufacture). By weapon specialists is assessed as very solid, with a relatively high-quality parts. Originally it was intended to produce 800 units, but certainly not meet with success. Producing arms in a conspiracy was a big challenge, success of such projects has always been an important event. It was no different in the case of machine gun KOP-PAL. In April 1943, in an apartment on the street Pius XI was a very pointed christening ceremony of the first instance, on this occasion wife of Chief of PAL Borucka Elizabeth put together a commemorative poem. The exact number of assembled units do not know, but there were probably over 100 Produced in the workshop on Gniewkowskiej peemy were transferred to a warehouse of weapons PAL on 14th Wiktorskiej Thus disposed between the troops fighting weapon. Perhaps part of peemów used during the battles fought in the Warsaw Uprising.

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