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Thread: Schedule 40 Can Be Your Friend--long term storage of goodies!

  1. #21
    Gunco Rookie dantheman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSapper View Post
    Sawsall works better!
    A miter saw is quick and gives you a good square cut .

  2. #22
    THE 9mm ADDICT MUSIBIKE's Avatar
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    Yeap, you are almost a NUTS as us TEXANS?

    But, we are using full size full auto weapons and don't need MOMMA to hold it for us.

    :-)

    M U S I B I K E

  3. #23
    GuncoHolic Black Blade's Avatar
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    Variation on a theme

    The MIDNIGHT GARDENER



    Yes, I do have packed various items as well as guns and ammo packed in grease in airtight PVC pipe with end caps stashed and cached in 4 states.

    WEAPONS CACHE 101

    By Gabe Suarez

    I don't believe in burying weapons. Still, I have received so many emails about this that I guess I need to mention something. Whatever you do, you need to keep at least one weapon set (pistol and rifle) with you along with the accompanying ammo. But for those with extensive arsenals who want to secure them better and outside of the "gun safe" method, read on.

    To cache means to hide something. You don't learn to cache the sorts of things we are talking about in police academy, you learn it from criminals. A true cache, like we are discussing, should be able to lay undetected for years.

    There may be varying levels of caches as well. An E&E (escape and evasion) cache will contain a complete getaway kit in addition to a pistol and maybe a folding stock AK, that while well hidden, can be grabbed up and used in a blink of an eye. Think of that as a hidden bug out kit. Such a cache will contain stuff to fight with, stuff to treat injuries with, stuff to eat, and stuff to use to change your appearance. A few $100 bills would be a good idea too. All of that can go in a small backpack (except for the AK).

    I don't think anyone has interest in the cache of "sports guns", so we will focus on the cache of fighting weapons such as assault rifles and combat pistols. Remember to make certain to leave no fingerprints on any cache item. All caching must be done with latex gloves on and those of you with hairy arms, wear long sleeves taped at the cuffs. Free market guns (private party anonymous purchases) are better for this than those whose numbers are married to you.

    Remember that it is not enough to dig and bury as the "fresh grave" in your front yard will only draw attention. You need to "hide" it. Look at three broad categories: rural caches, urban caches, and underwater caches.

    Rural Cache - In the countryside, cache options abound. Needless to say that a cache can be located on your property, but look to cache stuff either on someone else's land, or in public land. Look for old piles of metal or used up farm equipment. These make great places as few snoopers will want to move a bunch of rusty junk around. And all that metal wreaks havoc on any technical search methods. Abandoned farmhouses, ruins, and foundations provide countless hiding places, as do small caves, old mines, and even graveyards. Just look for places where people would tend to not want to go, or places that would be overlooked. It is a good idea to GPS the coordinates and memorize them like your birthday.

    The Urban Cache - In cities you must be more creative. You need to find a quiet dark out of the way corner were you can remove some tile or blocks or panels to create an improvised vault. Remember, make it look nasty and few people will put their hands in there.

    The Underwater Cache - Arms may be sealed into a big PVC pipe, then sunk. The Swiss did this during WW2 as a fallback in the event Hitler's forces invaded

    No matter where your cache will be located, you should go to great pains to make sure that it remains sealed and moisture proof. A large PVC pipe works fine, but I am more in favor of a large Pelican Case. Remember that if your cache is damaged by nature, you will have wasted your time. A Pelican case can not only be made water proof, but is as strong as steel.

    A chunk of dry ice dropped into a watertight package and allowed to "steam off" before sealing will purge out the rust producing oxygen. Silica desiccant bags are also necessary -specially for an ammo cache. Where possible, for long term storage seal the lids with a bead of silicone glue.

    Where tight space is a consideration, as in urban caches, you may have to merely wrap your weapons in plastic. In this case use the biggest thickest heavy duty lawn and garden bags you can find. After placing the arms inside, suck out all the air you can, twist the end, and duct tape the hell out of the entire bag.

    Memorize the location of your cache. Take compass readings and GPS coordinates as well as the use of landmarks. Keep an eye on it regularly by simply driving by if nothing else. Be alert to construction around your cache. If you see signs of activity, or the survey stakes go up, move it out immediately. When you look for a cache location, consider that you will need an excuse for being near it. This is easy in rural areas but slightly more complicated in the urban environment.

    When returning to a cache, do some counter-surveillance. Move through the area looking for anyone or anything out of place, or anyone who may be staking it out, or even a new "utility box" which may contain a remotely operated camera. When making a final approach, don't walk right up to it. Just as discussed in Roger's Ranger Rule Book, "fish hook" your trail, double back and observe your own path in to check for followers. This may take some time, but is well worth it.

    Finally, walk right past your cache and make it appear you are doing something, or unloading something into an adjacent area. This is simply a ruse for the event you are compromised. If you are contacted at this point, your adversaries may not find the true cache, and your "cover for action" is believable. Only when you are truly sure of your safety should you go to the cache and unload it. Consider leaving tell-tale secret marks which will tell you if anyone has disturbed and replaced your cache. It is a favorite trick of security forces to put tracking devices into cached weapons in order to follow the guerrilla back to his base and catch the entire band.

    A tell-tale may be a bit of thread or a pebble etc. placed in such a way that if the cache is disturbed it will break or fall out without the security forces noticing it.

    Having written all of this, I want to make a point - I don't like the idea of caching weapons for the reasons most folks will do it. Freedoms are not given, they are taken. And once possessed, they cannot be taken away while the original owner lives and is willing to kill and die to keep them. We would be a different nation if those who live here today had not forgotten that lesson of yesterday.

    Gabe Suarez
    Suarez International USA, Inc.
    One Source Tactical
    info@suarezinternational.com
    Office 928-776-4492
    When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America , you get a front row seat. - George Carlin


  4. #24
    GuncoHolic Black Blade's Avatar
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    Bury a gun and ammo for 15 years

    (and be assured everything still works when you dig it up)

    By Charles Wood

    Back in the early 1990s the outlook for the nation in general and gun owners in particular seemed rather grim to many people. A few years earlier in 1986, Congress had banned civilians from owning newly manufactured machine guns. There was ever more strident talk of banning semi-automatic weapons or so called assault weapons. Many of us regarded a semi-automatic rifle as the foundation of a home defense battery. Many of us believed that more laws banning ever more types of guns were imminent. About that time I acquired a Ruger Ranch Rifle through a private sale. I decided to stash it away in a safe place just in case my worst fear was to materialize, another gun ban.



    The general location of the pipe after the logging was done. It would have helped if I had had a better method of locating the pipe.

    First order of business was to decide how I would prepare the gun for long-term storage and where I would store it. I decided that for maximum security I needed to bury it. This would keep it safe from all but the most determined government goons. I set about finding an appropriate location. I live in a fairly remote, wooded rural area in the northeast. One day as I was walking in the woods I noticed a hemlock tree had blown down and been uprooted by a recent windstorm. There was a small crater about eight feet across and three feet deep where the root ball had been torn out of the ground. It occurred to me that this would be a good spot for my rifle.

    Since I now had the location, I began preparing the rifle for storage. I bought a piece of 6-inch diameter schedule 40 PVC pipe, end caps, and PVC solvent from a hardware store in another town where I had never done business before. Being in a rural area where everyone knows everyone I didn't want to arouse any suspicions about what I was up to. I then disassembled the rifle and completely coated every metal part with a rust preventative oil intended for storing unused machinery in damp locations. This oil dries to form a waxy coating. I was extra careful that the bore was completely coated. I wanted to vacuum-pack the rifle as extra insurance against rust. As it turned out my employer had just taken delivery of a mainframe computer that happened to be wrapped in a large



    Here is the top of the pipe uncovered with the noose and winch attached.

    aluminized mylar bag for shipping. This proved to be the perfect material for my purpose. I discovered that with a warm iron I could fuse the edges of this material into a custom-fitted airtight bag for the rifle. I placed each individual component of the partially disassembled rifle in its own custom-made mylar bag with a small bag of silica gel desiccant to absorb any moisture present. Using my shop vac and an iron I managed to produce a professional-looking vacuum-packing job. The barreled action, stock, trigger assembly, hand guard, magazines, scope, and mounts all went into individual bags.

    Since the rifle was so heavily preserved I knew I would need something to degrease it with when I finally retrieved it so I included two small cans of 1-1-1 Trichlorethane in the package. Also, since a rifle is of little use without ammunition, several thousand rounds of .223 were included. Because every well-maintained rifle needs to be cleaned and oiled occasionally, I added a cleaning rod, patches, Hoppe's #9 solvent, gun oil, grease, and owner's manual. A set of reloading dies was included as well. If dire circumstances required me to retrieve my rifle I wanted to be sure that I would have everything at hand necessary to put it into service. All of the individually wrapped components were sealed together into a larger mylar bag custom-made for the purpose along with a couple more medium-sized bags of desiccant. A few bags of ammo were taped to the side of this bag and the entire thing was wrapped in duct tape. Additional ammo was packed into zip lock freezer bags.



    The pipe was carefully sawn open to reveal that it remained watertight after 15 years underground.

    With everything prepared I was ready to load the pipe. I first put in a large bag of desiccant followed by several bags of ammo, followed by the bag containing the rifle and supplies. Since there was some empty space surrounding the rifle, I dumped in some loose ammo just to fill the voids. More bags of ammo were then added to fill the pipe. Since I had a tank of nitrogen available, I also purged the air from the tube with the nitrogen before sealing it. This was undoubtedly overkill but I had it available so I used it. I took extreme care while using the PVC solvent to insure that the caps were perfectly sealed and watertight. Finally, I painted the pipe black, and at this point, 15 years later, I'm not sure why.

    I loaded the sealed pipe in the back of my truck and drove up into the woods to the downed hemlock tree previously selected. With a post hole digger I dug a hole about six feet deep and a foot in diameter in the center of the crater left by the root ball of the tree. After gently placing the pipe in the hole, I carefully pulled the tree upright using a chain attached to my truck. By this time the tree had died and most of the needles had fallen off. Once returned to vertical it was pretty stable and a little dirt and debris shoveled around the edges did the trick. In any healthy, well-managed forest there are always a few standing dead trees, so this one would not arouse the curiosity of anyone who hunted or hiked there.



    The contents of the pipe, still in the protective wrapping.

    I never told anyone what I had done and I didn't write down the location anywhere. About five or six years later I had a timber harvest. I had my consulting forester mark the tree as a wildlife tree so it wouldn't be disturbed by the loggers. It was, after all, popular with the Pileated Woodpeckers. It has been 15 years since I buried the rifle and I have recently had another timber harvest. The tree was quite rotted by this time and it didn't survive the harvest. I had been keeping an eye on it, so when it finally fell I marked a nearby tree so I could find it again after the loggers left. Even careful logging causes quite an upheaval in the forest and it can be difficult to locate a specific spot after all the landmarks have been changed. After the logging crew had left it took me several days with a shovel and a rake to locate the rifle. In hindsight, I should have had some additional way of locating it. Since the top of the pipe was about three feet below ground level, my old metal detector wasn't much help. I decided that it would be interesting to retrieve the rifle and see how well my storage plan had worked.

    I managed to locate the very rotted stump beneath the logging debris and started digging. Once I located the top of the pipe I excavated around it about a foot on all sides and to a depth of about a foot below the top of the pipe. I attached a noose of polypropylene rope and used the winch on my truck and a convenient log to slowly pull the pipe out of the ground. After all these years the soil was still very loose around the pipe and it was relatively easy to pull it out. I could have accomplished it without the winch had it been necessary. After removing the pipe, I filled the hole with logging debris and covered it up with some loose hemlock boughs to prevent someone from falling into it.



    All components were individually wrapped and sealed. The contents show no adverse affects after spending 15 years underground.

    Back at the house I hosed off the mud and prepared to saw the pipe open. Using a handsaw, I very carefully cut completely around one of the caps. I didn't want to damage the contents by being too enthusiastic.

    With the cap removed it was immediately obvious that no moisture had gotten into the pipe. I carefully slid the contents out on to a table for examination. After unwrapping the duct tape and removing the outer bag, it was obvious that all was OK. All of the individual packages were unwrapped to reveal the contents were as good as the day they were packaged.

    So if you think it is necessary, you can store a rifle safely for long periods in harsh environments. A little attention to detail, some scrounged materials, and a few dollars in supplies are all it takes.

    Bury a gun and ammo for 15 years by Charles Wood Issue #115
    When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America , you get a front row seat. - George Carlin


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