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Thread: SHTF or EOTWAWKI

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    BANNED FyredUp's Avatar
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    Default SHTF or EOTWAWKI

    How many of you truly believe society will cumble and anrchy will rein supreme? How many of you truly believe gangs will roam the streets looting, pillaging, and indiscriminately killing and raping? (More than they do now anyways!) How many truly believe it will get so bad that you may have to kill, perhaps multiple times, to protect your family and supplies?

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    GuncoHolic kernelkrink's Avatar
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    You mean like in LA during the 1992 riots when shopkeepers were blasting away at the gang members?

    YouTube - ‪LA Riots - Don't steal from Korean Store‬‏

    Or back during the 1965 Watts riot when it got so bad the LAPD invented SWAT teams as a response? Or New Orleans during the aftermath of Katrina? Heck, Chicago or Detroit on hot Saturday nights?

    Nah, it could never happen again. Those were just isolated incidents.

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    GuncoHolic Black Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    How many of you truly believe society will cumble and anrchy will rein supreme? How many of you truly believe gangs will roam the streets looting, pillaging, and indiscriminately killing and raping? (More than they do now anyways!) How many truly believe it will get so bad that you may have to kill, perhaps multiple times, to protect your family and supplies?
    Depends on where you live and political environment. South Central LA (Rodneyt King Riots), New Orleans (Katrina), Athens, TN (Battle of Athens 1946), Rosewood Massacre, American Revolution, American Civil War, most any summer night in Detroit, Chicago and Washington DC, etc. come to mind. On a nation-wide scale if the US dollar collapses or the welfare checks stop - then yes, the feral types will run wild looting, shooting, raping and pillaging.
    When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America , you get a front row seat. - George Carlin


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    BANNED FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kernelkrink View Post
    You mean like in LA during the 1992 riots when shopkeepers were blasting away at the gang members?

    YouTube - ‪LA Riots - Don't steal from Korean Store‬‏

    Or back during the 1965 Watts riot when it got so bad the LAPD invented SWAT teams as a response? Or New Orleans during the aftermath of Katrina? Heck, Chicago or Detroit on hot Saturday nights?

    Nah, it could never happen again. Those were just isolated incidents.
    The LA riots were just that, LA riots. The Watts riot were just that, Watts riots. Katrina was just that Katrina. My point? They were all localized instances of the break down of law and order not a complete collapse of society across the entire nation. And to equate the lawlessness of inner city anywhere in the US to a complete societal breakdown is well, ludicrous. There has been periods of lawlessness from the beginning times of our nation. Just some quick examples off the top of my head, Tombstone, Dodge City, almost any mining town in the old west. None of those were originally bastions of societal peace and harmony yet the rest of the county did not have societal collapse because of those isolated problem spots.

    We will always have periods of lawlessness, including riots, looting, robbery, rapes and other mayhem. That in and of itself does not spell the collapse of the entire society.

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    BANNED FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Blade View Post
    Depends on where you live and political environment. South Central LA (Rodneyt King Riots), New Orleans (Katrina), Athens, TN (Battle of Athens 1946), Rosewood Massacre, American Revolution, American Civil War, most any summer night in Detroit, Chicago and Washington DC, etc. come to mind. On a nation-wide scale if the US dollar collapses or the welfare checks stop - then yes, the feral types will run wild looting, shooting, raping and pillaging.
    Again, in the recent history of our nation we have not had a nationwide collapse of society. LA riots, Watts riots, Rodney King riots, and katrina were all localized events and localized breakdowns. The rest of the country did not fall into disaray or face societal collapse because of those events. And like I said above using the lawlessness of inner city USA as an example of societal collapse is ludicrous because we have examples of that all the way back to the birth of our country.

    I believe IF nationally society collapse for some reason then certain groups will run wild. But there is a HUGE difference between localized break downs and a complete loss of societal structure across the country.

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    GuncoHolic Black Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Again, in the recent history of our nation we have not had a nationwide collapse of society. LA riots, Watts riots, Rodney King riots, and katrina were all localized events and localized breakdowns. The rest of the country did not fall into disaray or face societal collapse because of those events. And like I said above using the lawlessness of inner city USA as an example of societal collapse is ludicrous because we have examples of that all the way back to the birth of our country.

    I believe IF nationally society collapse for some reason then certain groups will run wild. But there is a HUGE difference between localized break downs and a complete loss of societal structure across the country.
    Well then I guess if I were you I wouldn't worry about any need to stock up nonperishable food, basic necessities, ammo, firearms, etc. Life is good and no need to take any precautions. Uncle Sugar will always be there to provide and make sure that everything runs like a well oiled machine. I on the other hand will look out for me and mine, hope for the best and prepare for the worst whether it's a localized event or a national or global event - but then that's just me.
    When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America , you get a front row seat. - George Carlin


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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Blade View Post
    Well then I guess if I were you I wouldn't worry about any need to stock up nonperishable food, basic necessities, ammo, firearms, etc. Life is good and no need to take any precautions. Uncle Sugar will always be there to provide and make sure that everything runs like a well oiled machine. I on the other hand will look out for me and mine, hope for the best and prepare for the worst whether it's a localized event or a national or global event - but then that's just me.

    And this is exactly the answer I expected. A confrontational non-answer.

    I never said I am not prepping. I never said I haven't prepped and planned for basic necessities. I never said that I don't have firearms and ammunition to supply them. I never said I don't have a plan. But, by the same token, I refuse to live my life on edge every day expecting society to collapse and to find zombies, hoodlums, looters, and gangs roaming the rural landscape where I live. Not the way I choose to live.

    My basic premise was simply do you believe that we will see an overall collapse of society, or just more localized incidents such as the Rodney King riots, or Katrina, and the ensuing lawlessness as the infrastructure collapsed. Using examples of localized riots and the crime rates of the inner city as proof society will collapse seems a bit of a stretch. Using things like the government might default on it's debt, or an impending depression, would be a better rationale for expecting societal collapse.

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    Gunco Good ole boy tanvil's Avatar
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    Actually, the localized events mentioned above are proof that society has already collapsed. In a society that lives by Gods law, not mans law, many of these events would not have happened.


    As a nation, we are trillions of dollars in debt (that we can not repay)to alot of people who want our natural resources, not our money. We have recently witnessed the largest tranfer of wealth in the history of the world, out of the hands of the public into the hands of banks, insurance companies, and large corporations who control all three branches of the US government. We are probably well on our way to hyper inflation and the devaluation of the federal reserve note. The outcome may not be the worst case senario but it will NOT be a smooth road. The entitlement generation is capable of anything.

    I believe it is a man's civil duty to become as self sufficient as possible.

    My experience with huricanes and other natural disasters has taught me that.
    There is also such a thing as having enough on hand to help others who can't afford the extra supplies, or those who lost everything in the storm.

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    GuncoHolic Black Blade's Avatar
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    This is my whole point really. I prepare for the possibility of unemployment (bad economy or medical issues), natural disasters, economic collapse, terrorism and warfare, etc. Just common sense since I also have auto insurance, medical insurance, property insurance, life insurance, etc. I think the most likely event will be a financial collapse as we (the US) sinks deeper into debt. It is now mathematically impossible for us to ever pay off the national debt without hyperinflation where we can pay off our creditors (China, Japan, Federal Reserve bank, etc) with cheap devalued dollars.

    This last week China's rating agancy declared that the US is already in technical default and they may no longer be a major buyer of US debt. If the US falls then everyone falls. There is nowhere else left to go. The US is in decline like the Roman Empire. Once the people figure out that they can raid the national treasury to benefit themselves they will send the nation into bankruptcy like Rome. They will tax the relatively wealthy until they are depleted as a resource. They the nation falls like Rome when they could not afford to defend themselves from the financial collapse without and from the barbarians at the gates.

    Not that this really matters to me as I am getting old but am debt-free and hold raw rural land and precious metals as well as my long term stores of food, basic goods and defense materials. I am isolated enough to be low profile and my neighbors are either of the same mindset and similar levels of preparedness or are part time/summer residents. I guess I am more concerned about the coming generations who will have to clean up our nation's financial messes and excesses or submit themselves to some form of slavery to whatever regime comes to power next.

    People always tend to say "it's different this time". Those last famous last words are a warning on Wall Street and should be a warning everywhere. History does repeat (some say rhyme) because man by his very nature does not learn from his past but repeats the same mistakes over and over as if somehow the outcome will be different. I live my life as a free man and enjoy life but I also know the score. The odds are against us.

    Just my two cents.
    When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America , you get a front row seat. - George Carlin


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    GuncoHolic kernelkrink's Avatar
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    Fyredup, if we ever do have another "great depression" or similar, expect widespread civil unrest. Back in the day there was a different mindset, you took care of your fellow man as much as you could because "there but for the grace of God go I". People accepted charity from others as a last resort, and were properly embarrased to have to do so. A good work ethic was the norm, and men would accept the most low paying tasks just to be able to say they earned what they had. Granted, there were deadbeats as now, but they were not the norm or even a high percentage minority.

    Today, how many towns and cities of any size don't have large numbers of people who are on welfare, and they expect to receive it because it's their "right" to do so? How many have been on welfare for multiple generations, knowing nothing else? What do you think will happen once the free benefits get turned off? What about all the unemployed with no cash coming in? When the kids are hungry, parents do what they have to, don't they? The Watts riot and Katrina were just preludes of what could be coming on a much wider scale.

    As a Fireman I assume your house is well stocked with fire extinguishers at potential fire sources and you check to make sure your smoke detectors are working every so often. Maybe you even run fire drills with your family so they know what to do in case of fire. To do otherwise after the fire deaths you must have seen would be foolish. I don't assume you compulsively check each alarm twice a day and remove all flammable items and ignition sources from your home as you worry about the possibility of spontaneous human combustion making all your preps useless. Yet you seem to project the same mindset onto people who prep for civil unrest? Do I worry about it constantly and cautiously open the door each morning, anticipating a roving gang on my lawn? No. I don't think most people preparing for the worst do either.

    But I also don't stick my head in the sand and believe that it can't happen. It is a very real possibility, and government response would be a joke. You saw how well they handled Katrina, can you imagine how bad it would have been if multiple cities along the coasts had been affected as bad within a short time span? I can.

    Also, localized versus nationwide doesn't make much difference when you are stuck in the middle of it. Knowing that 500 miles away things are "normal" doesn't help a whole lot when you can't get there safely.

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