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Thread: Survival & meat

  1. #11
    GuncoHolic twa2471's Avatar
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    Sounds like the deer mangment expert was "slightly miffed" about hunting during the rut. I must agree with him though, you really need to pratice good managment to keep a heard strong, that's what makes a good hunter. I like a big rack too, but I'd much rather have a nice young 2 year old buck, they taste much better. After all, for me I hunt for meat not the presteige. I don't know about the Reds but the big white tails around her get a bit gamey tasting when there huge and in the rut.

  2. #12
    A guy from the UK Hunter_zero's Avatar
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    Deer management is just that and is done for different reasons in the UK.
    For example, if the immediate habitat can not support the deer numbers, then a cull of hinds or does would be in order, if it were tree damage a cull of old stags or bucks and equally you might need to inject cash revenue in to the environment to improve areas for deer, if that is the case then trophy hunting pays the bills. Red deer rut around October month, open season starts in August month. The stalker was not breaking the law and to be honest I had sat in a High seat the previous season and watched that same stag strut up and down the field below. The stag was just going back, so if I were to put my hand on my heart I would have taken him as well but would have skipped all the publicity. For meat I prefer a hind or a doe, however Roe bucks taste fine, with Muntjac coming second place and reds third. I do not like the taste of Fallow at all, taste like ferrets rear ends smell in my opinion. I have some very fine fallow land, 20 mins up the road from me but don't tent to stalk there. Red stags lose condition and when spent (after the rut) the meat isn't so good.

    John


    Quote Originally Posted by twa2471 View Post
    Sounds like the deer mangment expert was "slightly miffed" about hunting during the rut. I must agree with him though, you really need to pratice good managment to keep a heard strong, that's what makes a good hunter. I like a big rack too, but I'd much rather have a nice young 2 year old buck, they taste much better. After all, for me I hunt for meat not the presteige. I don't know about the Reds but the big white tails around her get a bit gamey tasting when there huge and in the rut.

  3. #13
    Gunco Maniac sjohnson's Avatar
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    It's a long read, but the South Dakota hunting regulation book might be of some interest as far as how hunting is administered in one state of the U.S.A. At the very least the color identification pictures of various ducks at the beginning and end of the book seem pleasing enough

    http://gfp.sd.gov/ePubs/wildlife/201...ook_online.pdf
    I have a daughter. I tell her, "911 is what you dial after you're raped. 1911 is what you should have before they try."

  4. #14
    A guy from the UK Hunter_zero's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, I had a quick read but will have a good read later. Seems very complex. I really like the Government letting people use public land but does the bag limits and licenses apply if you actually own the land you are hunting over?

    In the UK (complex laws aside, this is a bottom line guide to hunting).

    Anyone can own a sub 12 ftlb airgun. Anyone can own a shotgun but needs to apply for a Shotgun license. To own a firearm you must have a good reason.

    (Obviously for Shotguns & Firearms the police do a lengthy background check and home visit).

    Okay, so I want to shoot rabbits, all I have to do if I do not own land with rabbits is to call over to a farm and ask the landowner for permission to shoot his/her rabbits and as long as they agree, that's it. I can shoot rabbits 24/7 as many and as often as I want. Same goes for all other species, unless they have a closed season in which case I can only shoot when the species are legally open, no bag limits no fees to pay.

    It is possible to buy a shooting lease from the Government, but it's expensive and aimed more a businesses than private people. The Government want to see qualifications (deer stalking certificates), method statements, Risk assessments. Cost are around $2 per acre of wood land. You would own the sole shooting for that area for the whole period of the lease, which can be as long as 5 years. Private landowners will also lease or sell the shooting rights to their farms, which mean that the holder of the shooting rights has sole use of the farm for shooting.
    There is a lot of free shooting in the UK (private landowners giving permission) but on good land, you can have people in every hedge trying to shoot "something".

    John

  5. #15
    Gunco Maniac sjohnson's Avatar
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    No license is required to own rifles, handguns or shotguns (as defined in law) at the Federal (U.S.A.) level, but local restrictions unfortunately can and do apply. We are fighting against these local restrictions (my state has few to no restrictions) and several local laws have been overturned or superceded.

    In my state, land ownership only negates the need to purchase certain licenses. Daily limits still apply. For instance, the current cottontail rabbit limits are 10 per day, 30 total in possession. Any landowner in possession of more than 30 rabbits would be in violation of the law.

    We only rarely hear of daily/possession limit law being enforced, and most of the time the enforcement is made against those truly stupid enough to openly break the law.

    Considering how much of each game type is allowed, simply eating what you've hunted is an easy way to stay within the limits of the law.
    I have a daughter. I tell her, "911 is what you dial after you're raped. 1911 is what you should have before they try."

  6. #16
    A guy from the UK Hunter_zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjohnson View Post
    Any landowner in possession of more than 30 rabbits would be in violation of the law.

    So, if the landowner farmed rabbits for a living, would he also have to stick to killing just 30?

    In the UK, no wild animal is owned until it has been killed, it's the right to killing the animal that is owned.

    Do you guys not have a problem with rabbits damaging crops? Over here it's a massive problem, same with Pigeons (or doves).

    I guess the law is the law, and as gun owners we should be well aware that we need to abide by the law. Over here a nights lamping in troubled areas could produce bags in excess of 100 rabbits. A lot of the guys who shoot big bags will sell in to the butchers (meat stores) for $1.50 (1) per rabbit.
    Pigeons are 50p (75 cents ?) each.

    Strange thing is with Pheasants, the birds are only worth $3. It cost more to buy the poults and to rear the birds to adult than the birds are worth when shot. This is why pheasant shooting is so expensive in the UK with many people paying $45 to shoot just one bird.

    John

  7. #17
    GuncoHolic Black Blade's Avatar
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    Red Stag! I would love to hunt that.

    Yep, we hunt deer (Muleys mostly - some White Tail), Pronghorn, Elk and Moose. Also upland game birds like Chukar, Hungarian Partridge, Sage Grouse, Blue Grouse, Pheasant and Turkey. Dove when I can (weather tends to drive them out before season starts). Also waterfowl - Ducks and Geese. Unfortunately we have no Wild Boar (seems they can't survive here for some reason).
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  8. #18
    GuncoHolic kernelkrink's Avatar
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    AFAIK, bag limits apply to everybody. In my state, owning agricultural land is an exemption to the license, hunting and fishing your own land is part of the rights of ownership. Deer, for example, have to be taken to a check in station and recorded. With each license comes a tag you have to affix to the hind leg and has to remain on the carcass until butchered. As a landowner, if I shoot one on my land all I have to do is put my name and address on a tag I make myself and attach it. All other laws still apply though: bag limit, legal season for hunting with a firearm, bow, or blackpowder muzzleloader, etc. Normal limit is 1 deer per type of license (bow, firearm, or blackpowder) but some counties have "bonus permits" that allow you to shoot up to 8 more deer in counties with a large overpopulation of deer.

    Now, the one exception to bag limits are what are known as "depradation permits". If say a lot of deer are eating my crops, I can apply for one of those permits and if approved essentially any deer on my land become the same class as "nuisance wildlife" like groundhogs or rats: no bag limits, you can shoot outside normal hunting season, and can use any type of weapon to kill them.

    Nuisance animals covers a whole lot of stuff besides deer, and taking just about any small critter is allowed without a license or permit if you see them being a nuisance (racoons in the attic for example) and they are not a protected species. If you see a rabbit in the garden, blast it. Fortunately, around here anyway, exceeding a bag limit for nuisance wildlife control purposes would be pretty rare due to the lack of opportunities to "catch them in the act".

    Here, we start out with deer bow season in Oct to late Nov, then firearms for most of Nov, then bow and blackpowder overlap during Dec to Jan. "Urban deer hunting" can only be done with a bow and follows the normal bow season, except the first bow season starts about 2 weeks earlier for deer hunted inside a town or city limits. Firearms here consist of shotguns with slugs only, handguns of .357 magnum cal or above, and rifles that shoot the legal handgun calibers only. Blackpowder handguns and rifles can be used during blackpowder or firearms seasons.

  9. #19
    Gunco Maniac sjohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter_zero View Post
    So, if the landowner farmed rabbits for a living, would he also have to stick to killing just 30?

    In the UK, no wild animal is owned until it has been killed, it's the right to killing the animal that is owned.

    Do you guys not have a problem with rabbits damaging crops? Over here it's a massive problem, same with Pigeons (or doves).

    I guess the law is the law, and as gun owners we should be well aware that we need to abide by the law. Over here a nights lamping in troubled areas could produce bags in excess of 100 rabbits. A lot of the guys who shoot big bags will sell in to the butchers (meat stores) for $1.50 (1) per rabbit.
    Pigeons are 50p (75 cents ?) each.

    Strange thing is with Pheasants, the birds are only worth $3. It cost more to buy the poults and to rear the birds to adult than the birds are worth when shot. This is why pheasant shooting is so expensive in the UK with many people paying $45 to shoot just one bird.

    John
    Domestic rabbits have no limit, only the "wild" cottontail. As kernelkrink has stated, depredation permits can be had when there's a serious issue with a particular game population. I remember one occasion in the 1980's where the jackrabbit population was so high that about 200 of us got together. We spread out around a field (640 acres) and slowly closed in toward the center of the field. Using clubs we killed close to 1,000 jackrabbits - which had to be buried using a bulldozer. Total carnage, not a pleasant day, but a necessary act in order to reclaim the land for ranching purposes.

    Ring-neck Pheasants, while not indigenous to the U.S., have established themselves in the wild throughout much of the U.S.

    While commercialization of South Dakota pheasant hunting has unfortunately led to it being an expensive hunt with many farm-raised pheasants, as a young man I enjoyed open access to hundreds of in-the-wild pheasants each season. Times change, now pheasant hunting is a rich man's sport here. The local communities aren't complaining about the influx of hunter money, though!
    I have a daughter. I tell her, "911 is what you dial after you're raped. 1911 is what you should have before they try."

  10. #20
    Gunco Member withers.45's Avatar
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    And keep in mind that when someone says "here" they are referring to the State that they live in. Bag limits, dates of hunting seasons, kinds of wildlife, all vary from state to state, or even region within a State. Here in Kentucky, we have Whitetail deer, but no Mule deer, or Blacktails. Elk are only in the mountains in the very eastern edge of Kentucky. No pheasants to speak of, but we have Mourning doves, ducks, geese, quail, and turkey that are the most popular game birds. Cottontail rabbits are plentiful, Jack rabbits live out West.

    Of course this only scratches the surface, but its really interesting to hear about the differences of hunting here and the UK.

    Btw, here in America, folks refer to pigeons as "flying" rats

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