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Thread: U.S. electricity prices may be going up for good

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    GuncoHolic Black Blade's Avatar
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    Default U.S. electricity prices may be going up for good

    U.S. electricity prices may be going up for good

    Snippit:

    One recent study predicts the cost of electricity in California alone could jump 47% over the next 16 years, in part because of the state's shift toward more expensive renewable energy.

    "We are now in an era of rising electricity prices," said Philip Moeller, a member of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, who said the steady reduction in generating capacity across the nation means that prices are headed up. "If you take enough supply out of the system, the price is going to increase."

    In fact, the price of electricity has already been rising over the last decade, jumping by double digits in many states, even after accounting for inflation. In California, residential electricity prices shot up 30% between 2006 and 2012, adjusted for inflation, according to Energy Department figures. Experts in the state's energy markets project the price could jump an additional 47% over the next 15 years.

    The problems confronting the electricity system are the result of a wide range of forces: new federal regulations on toxic emissions, rules on greenhouse gases, state mandates for renewable power, technical problems at nuclear power plants and unpredictable price trends for natural gas. Even cheap hydro power is declining in some areas, particularly California, owing to the long-lasting drought.

    "Everywhere you turn, there are proposals and regulations to make prices go higher," said Daniel Kish, senior vice president at the Institute for Energy Research. "The trend line is up, up, up. We are going into uncharted territory."

    New emissions rules on mercury, acid gases and other toxics by the Environmental Protection Agency are expected to result in significant losses of the nation's coal-generated power, historically the largest and cheapest source of electricity. Already, two dozen coal generating units across the country are scheduled for decommissioning. When the regulations go into effect next year, 60 gigawatts of capacity equivalent to the output of 60 nuclear reactors will be taken out of the system, according to Energy Department estimates.

    Moeller, the federal energy commissioner, warns that these rapid changes are eroding the system's ability to handle unexpected upsets, such as the polar vortex, and could result in brownouts or even blackouts in some regions as early as next year. He doesn't argue against the changes, but believes they are being phased in too quickly.

    The federal government appears to have underestimated the impact as well. An Environmental Protection Agency analysis in 2011 had asserted that new regulations would cause few coal plant retirements. The forecast on coal plants turned out wrong almost immediately, as utilities decided it wasn't economical to upgrade their plants and scheduled them for decommissioning.

    The lost coal-generating capacity is being replaced largely with cleaner natural gas, but the result is that electricity prices are linked to a fuel that has been far more volatile in price than coal. The price of natural gas now stands at about $4.50 per million BTUs, more expensive than coal. Plans to export massive amounts of liquefied natural gas, the rapid construction of gas-fired power plants and the growing trend to convert the U.S. heavy truck fleet to natural gas could exert even more upward pressure on prices. Malcolm Johnson, a former Shell Oil gas executive who now teaches the Oxford Princeton Program, a private energy training company, said prices could move toward European price levels of $10.

    "When those natural gas prices start going up again, we will feel it in the way of higher electricity prices," warns James Sweeney, a Stanford University energy expert.

    Continued: U.S. electricity prices may be going up for good | Investor Discussion Board: IDB


    Black Blade: Might be time to seriously consider going off-grid and upgrading to on site solar power as well as wood burning stoves. Getting started on the woodpile for next heating season here:

    U.S. electricity prices may be going up for good-wodpile1.jpg U.S. electricity prices may be going up for good-wodpile2.jpg
    When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America , you get a front row seat. - George Carlin


  2. #2
    Gunco Veteran stalker1's Avatar
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    We use wood for heat.I remember my grandma's coal/wood cookstove. She also dipped snuff and spit into the firebox and we drank chicory coffee.wife and I have oil lamps candles and batteries since we were both raised the same way to be self reliant. Our power service is at the end of the line and since there is only 30 customers power gets restored in a couple days half a mile down the road while we go 10 days.we have practice! LOL good post BB.

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    Gunco Member Plan B's Avatar
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    With berkshire hathaway controlled by warren buffet and owning pacific power, I have expected our power rates to rise significantly. Obummer is causing the shutting down of coal fired powerplants, so with less capacity the price will go up. People can burn crap piles,the forest service and blm can burn slash piles but will forbid you to heat your house with wood, a renewable resource. You have to give your money to someone who doesn't really need it.

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    NoWorkCamp4Me railbuggy's Avatar
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    I'm paying 5.5 cents per kw on a two year plan with "DUKE ENERGY- -Retail" that ends in June. If I do nothing it will go to 7.35 per kw. Sign a new contract and get it at 0.0650 per kw. Was paying 55c per 100cf of NG. Its going up to.
    SOON-We already lost the war. You are the resistance.

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    Gunco Regular recon's Avatar
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    So once again the consumer is going to be the ones to pay the price! What happens when us plain people can't afford there prices? People on fixed incomes are really going to feel it! Sad days are coming.
    Buy It Cheap!
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    Member#348

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    GuncoHolic Black Blade's Avatar
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    I have very little sympathy for the people who voted for the current administration when they get screwed over on rising energy prices (and Obamacare, etc.). They are getting everything that they voted for. Barack even was as bold to say during the 2008 election campaign that he was going to do whatever he could to put coal miners and coal power plants out of business. I think that people who vote should get exactly everything that they vote for - in spades. (note the old Chinese proverb: "Be careful what you wish for, you may get it")



    Barack state's that he will bankrupt coal power companies with higher costs - but power companies don't pay fees and taxes. They simply raise rates and the consumer pays the higher fees and taxes. All that happens is that the companies become "tax collectors" for the government. No company or industry really pays taxes. They just pass along the added costs to the end users (the people). That's the real world.

    I just read the tea leaves and act accordingly. So I added a wood-coal stove at one cabin, stocked up on wood from local national forest land and keep a bin full coal I buy from a local distributor. Hell, some places I know where there is exposed sub-bituminous coal seams that I could exploit if I so wished - not great coal but free coal.

    Also noted it was time to advance my schedule of accumulating milsurp ammo due to Barack's other promises on gun control. Seems that was a prudent course of action as well. With rising food prices due to Federal Government interference on water distribution to farmers and ranchers as well as new rules on ranching on public lands and the rise of nonviable GMO crops thereby monopolising the food supply. Some places like Oklahoma have recently made it a crime to build solar power for private residences unless residents pay a fee to the local utilities.
    recon likes this.
    When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America , you get a front row seat. - George Carlin


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    Gunco Veteran hunter_02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by railbuggy View Post
    I'm paying 5.5 cents per kw on a two year plan with "DUKE ENERGY- -Retail" that ends in June. If I do nothing it will go to 7.35 per kw. Sign a new contract and get it at 0.0650 per kw. Was paying 55c per 100cf of NG. Its going up to.
    Hey rail. I'm paying .068 per KWH down here at the 26th parallel. My mom in NJ is paying .157 per KWH. A nickle don't sound too bad.
    Hunter

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    Gunco Veteran hunter_02's Avatar
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    Sympathy is found in the Dictionary. BETWEEN SHIT and SYPHILLUS.
    Hey, BB....SYMPATHY for the nitwits that voted for this trash? BullCrap. THEY COMMITTED TREASON. THEY BELONG IN A BODYBAG.
    Hunter

  9. #9
    aka: SDK1968 dutigaf's Avatar
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    ours is $20 fee... plus $25 co-op fee.... THEN ad in the .0495 per KWH...

    so its $45 plus your usage... we run around 1200KWH per month ($59).... or right at $105 a month in the spring, fall & winter... in summer with the AC that doubles. but ive got a very efficient house.

    going off the grid is something we looked into a few years back. IF your building a new house its easy to absorb the cost into the construction & design around it.

    BUT if your trying to convert over? man thats about a $25K operation for my area & thats IF they approve you switching & IF you can get insurance... which it turns out is all in the back pocket of the electric company & they raised the rates so high for it that it was cheaper to keep on the grid.

    yep they are trying to keep you hooked in.
    say what you mean & mean what you say


  10. #10
    Gunco Regular recon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Blade View Post
    I have very little sympathy for the people who voted for the current administration when they get screwed over on rising energy prices (and Obamacare, etc.). They are getting everything that they voted for. Barack even was as bold to say during the 2008 election campaign that he was going to do whatever he could to put coal miners and coal power plants out of business. I think that people who vote should get exactly everything that they vote for - in spades. (note the old Chinese proverb: "Be careful what you wish for, you may get it")



    Barack state's that he will bankrupt coal power companies with higher costs - but power companies don't pay fees and taxes. They simply raise rates and the consumer pays the higher fees and taxes. All that happens is that the companies become "tax collectors" for the government. No company or industry really pays taxes. They just pass along the added costs to the end users (the people). That's the real world.

    I just read the tea leaves and act accordingly. So I added a wood-coal stove at one cabin, stocked up on wood from local national forest land and keep a bin full coal I buy from a local distributor. Hell, some places I know where there is exposed sub-bituminous coal seams that I could exploit if I so wished - not great coal but free coal.

    Also noted it was time to advance my schedule of accumulating milsurp ammo due to Barack's other promises on gun control. Seems that was a prudent course of action as well. With rising food prices due to Federal Government interference on water distribution to farmers and ranchers as well as new rules on ranching on public lands and the rise of nonviable GMO crops thereby monopolising the food supply. Some places like Oklahoma have recently made it a crime to build solar power for private residences unless residents pay a fee to the local utilities.
    This shows how bad things have really gotten in this country of ours!
    Buy It Cheap!
    Stack It Deep!

    Member#348

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