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Thread: Solar and Wind Surcharge Bill Passes Legislature - Oklahoma

  1. #11
    Gunco Member Plan B's Avatar
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    Everyone needs to look at their power bill. Here in Oregon they make us pay extra for a fund for low income people and a fund to take out three dams on the Klamath River. Even if they don't take the dams out they keep the money. Want to guess who owns Pacific Power? Berkshire Hathaway

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    GuncoHolic Black Blade's Avatar
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    Biggest risk to utility stocks: You going solar

    Snippits:

    Wilson Magee picked the right time to start buying and selling utility stocks. The lead manager on Franklin Templeton Investments' Global Listed Infrastructure Fund started looking at the sector 18 months ago, and in that time, he's already seen some big changes.

    Since he started following the industry, renewable energy generation has climbed by about 16 percent. "The changes are significant from a long-term perspective," he said.

    Renewable energy is powering more and more homes in the U.S. and elsewhere, and it's likely that trend will continue well into the future.



    Source: Recurrent Energy

    Since 2004, power generation from renewable sources has increased by about 50 percent in the U.S., and it accounts for 13 percent of all energy produced in the country, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. By 2050, renewables could account for 80 percent of all energy sources, according to the National Renewable Energy Lab.

    It's not yet clear what that will mean for traditional utilities, but one thing's for certain: The utility sector will look a lot different in the future than it does today.

    While it may be years before we see dramatic changes, it's never too early for investors to start looking at their utility exposure and figuring out who will emerge as the new utility sector threat, who will adapt and which legacy companies will be caught napping.

    Magee isn't yet ready to say that a company such as SolarCity—which serves as a solar project installer and financier—will be the utility of the future, but he is keeping an eye on the transition to renewables.

    There are many companies with large solar fields already operating in this space, such as NextEra Energy and Duke Energy, but more could materialize as solar prices decline, Aggarwal said.

    Today the price per kilowatt hour (kWh) for solar is about 11 cents for utility-scale solar projects, according to the Department of Energy. It's still more expensive than using natural gas, which sells for about 6 cents/kWh, but the price has come down from 21 cents/kWh in just three years. The Department of Energy's "SunShot" program predicts the 6-cent goal will be reached by 2020. That would allow 14 percent of all U.S. electricity generation to be provided by solar.

    Wind and hydroelectric power are almost as cheap as natural gas—both cost about 8 cents/kWh—but it's solar that offers the best opportunity to deploy new power generation: You can't put a windmill in someone's backyard, so it's limited to large, open spaces. Hydroelectric power, meanwhile, is limited to where there's water, and most of those places are already being used. The amount of hydropower generated in the U.S. today is almost the same as it was in 2004.

    Many people think of solar companies that cater to the small-scale commercial and residential markets, including SolarCity and Sungevity, as solar panel sellers and not utility companies. SolarCity now has sales representatives in Home Depot and Best Buy locations, allowing residential customers to shop for a solar rooftop or backyard project just like they would a home improvement or electronics product. But in effect, they operate more like utilities, allowing their customers to lease the solar projects on their property. Any excess power that's created from a project is fed back into the neighborhood electric grid, and the user may then be given a discount on their electrical bill.

    The fact that end user is generating power—rather than getting it from a utility company—is a major change.

    People who have solar panels on their roofs still depend on their local utility to supply electricity when solar power runs low, but there could come a time when people disconnect from the power grid all together, Aggarwal said.

    Continued: Biggest risk to utility stocks: You going solar


    Black Blade: I continue to watch solar and want to install panels as a back up to my existing on-grid electricity. However, I can't make the numbers work no matter how I crunch them. It would cost me about $38,000 for what I need and then factor in maintenance and periodic battery replacement. The numbers just don't work. Maybe in a few years but not now. For now I keep generators on hand for back up power when the power goes out.
    When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America , you get a front row seat. - George Carlin


  3. #13
    aka: SDK1968 dutigaf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Blade View Post
    Biggest risk to utility stocks: You going solar

    Black Blade: I continue to watch solar and want to install panels as a back up to my existing on-grid electricity. However, I can't make the numbers work no matter how I crunch them. It would cost me about $38,000 for what I need and then factor in maintenance and periodic battery replacement. The numbers just don't work. Maybe in a few years but not now. For now I keep generators on hand for back up power when the power goes out.

    BB,

    even though we dont always agree on things.... your EXACTLY in the same price range & outlook on this as me.


    its still cheaper to have my big genny on NG or even pump gas than it is to do the solar in my current set up.
    say what you mean & mean what you say


  4. #14
    Gunco Good ole boy twa2471's Avatar
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    Fug-um I'll just put in the small solar back up system like I'd planed on doing all along,,,and I'll just shut off the incoming main as needed when I don't want to use power from the grid,,,simple as that,,they don't like it,,,,take me to court! Hell I use less than 170 KW per month anyhow without even trying to be frugal , so I'm sure I can knock that down pretty easy by being careful , at least by 30-40% and with a small solar array, I'm pretty sure I can knock that down by more than an additional 50% or more. I'd be willing to bet with a small 5-600 watt system and 4-5 big batteries I could use perhaps 50-75 KWH total for the month if I put my mind to it.

    Just cause there the only game in town around here ,,don't mean I have to play !

  5. #15
    aka: SDK1968 dutigaf's Avatar
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    wow bud thats impressive!

    you only use 170kwh per month!?!?! holy crap!

    im gas heat, gas cook, gas hot water & we still use 1,200 kwh a month with all energy efficient everything.. but then again my house does have 4 women in it..
    say what you mean & mean what you say


  6. #16
    Gunco Good ole boy twa2471's Avatar
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    THERE YA HAVE IT ,,, dutigaf,,,,women!!!!!
    And as Paul Harvey would say"That's the rest of the story"!!!

    When I was still married our power bill was in the $450+ range, and that was back in 2008 now she's gone,,,,, 120 tops.

    If I wasn't so Damn cheap,,, I'd just go off grid totally, but it would cost to much to be able to pay itself back with what little I use.

    I am 64 after all, and the way I've abused myself,,I'll be Damn lucky just to make it till tomorrow!!!

    Doubt it would pay itself off for a big one. But I can get what I need to cut my bill about in half for around 2 grand,2500 ,,,so then it would be worth it. And something I'm defiantly considering.

  7. #17
    TRX
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndAmendican View Post
    I don't even remotely understand how it's legal to charge ANY customer a different price than another for electricity?!?!
    I could use my local power company as a shining example of that. The rates in town are "zoned" according to where you are, and rates vary nearly 5x from highest to lowest... and "business" rates are less than the lowest residential rate. *Plus* the city requires that all "habitations" be connected to the grid, whether you have your own power or not.
    Perge, scelus, mihi diem perficias.

  8. #18
    TRX
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    Quote Originally Posted by twa2471 View Post
    I'll just shut off the incoming main as needed when I don't want to use power from the grid,,,simple as that
    Hah! The "meter fee" (being hooked to the grid, required by law) is $78/mo. here... whether you use any electricity or not.
    Perge, scelus, mihi diem perficias.

  9. #19
    Gunco Good ole boy twa2471's Avatar
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    That's bull shit that its setup like that TRX,,,I'd be pissed about that! Well what ta hell ya going to do,,public utilities are going to skin you one way or the other. Look at any of those type bills and they all got a bunch of BS charges that you can't ever figure out what they are actually for, fee this,,surcharge that,, and on and on. I get about 20- 25 bucks worth of added fees for Lord Knows what on mine ????
    Last edited by twa2471; 06-04-2014 at 11:08 AM.

  10. #20
    aka: SDK1968 dutigaf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    Hah! The "meter fee" (being hooked to the grid, required by law) is $78/mo. here... whether you use any electricity or not.

    mine is only $25 but i hear they are taking it to $58!! more than double... & you "have" to have it.
    say what you mean & mean what you say


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