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Thread: Composite Lowers...

  1. #11
    aka: SDK1968 dutigaf's Avatar
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    ok wanna back this up a bit and say that Frontier is getting these made for them... they ARE the Plumcrazy lowers which will also be a different name real soon.. and NO they are NOT made by Vulcan.

    they are still coming from the guys over at Lake Havasu in AZ and this is complete with the composite FCG & LPK and the rear stock/buffer and spring.

    ive got a bunch of these... and while i can crank out 80% all day long with a drill press its still no where as cheap as these for a complete lower...

    likewise the FCG on these is VERY impressive.
    say what you mean & mean what you say


  2. #12
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    @ $99 they would be worth a try. a decent stock and LPK would cost that much.


    i"m still not crazy about the carbon-fiber lowers. ever see a carbon fiber rotor come "unglued"? they like to fail at the worst possible times--LOL!

    if there brittle-- i would worry about where the buffer tube attaches to the lower--that area is where poorly cast or improperly cured carbon lowers break off most of the time.


    i have been running a cav-arms polymer lower for the past couple years. it is a soft but rigid type of ABS/nylon. so far it has held up well enough.

    buy a couple of um and bury them i the back yard!

    this is a vulcan CF i am thinking--broke right where the rear pin goes through the lower.

    maybe they come up with a fix after all these years???

    what is a 'plumcrazy" lower made from anyways?
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    Last edited by j427x; 03-22-2012 at 04:48 PM.

  3. #13
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    Plum crazy lower issue.UPDATED 7_16_2011 - AR15.COM

    Plum Crazy Lowers - Page 6 - Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums


    Plum Crazy lower - my quick review - PredatorMasters Forums

    it seems the plumcrazy lowers had some problems as well. the FCGs are also plastic.

    i found a bunch of pictures of broken plumb-crazy lowers. not all the pictures were at mall-ninja places either. the guy at Colorado ar seems to know what he is talking about. it seems he has seen more than one epic fail.


    i would think twice on these carbon lowers. they ain't this cheap for no reason.

  4. #14
    Citizen, Patriot, Ranger bellson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j427x View Post
    @ $99 they would be worth a try. a decent stock and LPK would cost that much.


    i"m still not crazy about the carbon-fiber lowers. ever see a carbon fiber rotor come "unglued"? they like to fail at the worst possible times--LOL!

    if there brittle-- i would worry about where the buffer tube attaches to the lower--that area is where poorly cast or improperly cured carbon lowers break off most of the time.


    i have been running a cav-arms polymer lower for the past couple years. it is a soft but rigid type of ABS/nylon. so far it has held up well enough.

    buy a couple of um and bury them i the back yard!

    this is a vulcan CF i am thinking--broke right where the rear pin goes through the lower.

    maybe they come up with a fix after all these years???

    what is a 'plumcrazy" lower made from anyways?
    I saw an Aluminum lower do that same thing...The guy did a mix and match on fixed stock buffer and spring with a decidedly short collapsible buffer tube. The thing just beat itself to death, and then fractured in the same place. Just sayin....
    Imagine whirled peas

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    Bellson

  5. #15
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellson View Post
    I saw an Aluminum lower do that same thing...The guy did a mix and match on fixed stock buffer and spring with a decidedly short collapsible buffer tube. The thing just beat itself to death, and then fractured in the same place. Just sayin....
    i have never seen a forging break. i did see some hess castings break.


    what are the odds of a forging breaking? like 1-1,000,000

    i don't know how many of the plumb crazys sold. to me they seem to have a very high breakage ratio for the numbers shipped. i do know they ain't shipped 1,000,000s of them. had they shipped millions then the failure rate might be acceptable.

    don't know if there as bad as hess/vulcan.


    the price here should tell you something. $100 for a lower, stock and LPK.

    their selling you the stock and lpk and giving you the lower--

    you might get lucky and get a good one, for the price even if you get one and use it for a year or two and then it snaps you not out much. and maybe they fixed the problem--though i doubt it.


    i considered them, but i think i am going to pass on this deal.

    good luck um!

  6. #16
    aka: SDK1968 dutigaf's Avatar
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    this is where i disagree with you..

    and heres the story of why because i actually know this from fact & real discussions with the actual people behind these.


    ANY AR LOWER COMBO SHOULD ONLY COST THIS MUCH.

    simple as that. the ENTIRE reason the man came up with these and put them out was he was totally disgusted by the BS that the company's put out there and the price gouging that they all do to us... the purchasers.

    They actually contractually LIMIT what can be charged for these & anyone caught charging more than the agreed price for them is removed from being able to sell them.

    his entire philosophy on these is to make a little, let the retailer make a little and save the end user a little.

    he keeps his price set, he keeps the sellers profit range set.... which in turn controls what "we" pay for them.

    as to failure rates? he has sold 10's of thousands of these in the last 2 years. that part i know for sure.

    has there been some failures? SURE. have ANY of them ever came back to be proven the fault of the style of manufacture? verses say alteration or application?

    they are a POLYMER. not ABS plastic, not rubber, NOT VULCAN, NOT HESSE.

    i spent a lot of time on the phone with the actual guy who makes these before he ever went wide open to the public with them to make sure that it was gonna be safe before we put them on our board OR before i strapped a 50bmg sniper upper to one. NO im not going to give you his phone number as he totally avoids this type of conversation and says the product stands on its own.

    we've sold over a couple hundred just on the sites im on in the last 2 years with not a single complaint or failure and im not the only one who has put a 50bmg on one.

    even if you did have a failure: is there anyone else out there giving you a LIFETIME replacement warranty on the lower and the FCG of their units?

    these obviously wont be for everyone, just like some people wont own a GLOCK.

    thats all fine and dandy, everyone makes their own purchases/decisions.

    but you shouldnt run a mans product down when you dont know ANYTHING about it, dont own it, havent used it, never tested it.

    hold out judgement until you have tried one out.
    say what you mean & mean what you say


  7. #17
    Citizen, Patriot, Ranger bellson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j427x View Post
    i have never seen a forging break. i did see some hess castings break.


    what are the odds of a forging breaking? like 1-1,000,000

    i don't know how many of the plumb crazys sold. to me they seem to have a very high breakage ratio for the numbers shipped. i do know they ain't shipped 1,000,000s of them. had they shipped millions then the failure rate might be acceptable.

    don't know if there as bad as hess/vulcan.


    the price here should tell you something. $100 for a lower, stock and LPK.

    their selling you the stock and lpk and giving you the lower--

    you might get lucky and get a good one, for the price even if you get one and use it for a year or two and then it snaps you not out much. and maybe they fixed the problem--though i doubt it.


    i considered them, but i think i am going to pass on this deal.

    good luck um!

    Not disagreeing with you. My experience with this one Vulcan product is very good. I passed that on. My experience with an Aluminum lower failing in the exact same way as the lower you depicted in your post is an anomaly to say the least. The lower I saw fail was a Colt. I think all of them are forged, but I could be mistaken.

    You are welcome to your opinion, and you are welcome to express your opinion. I think we differ on this subject. I think that Carbon lowers are just fine. Other opinions may differ. Ain't it great to be an American?

    Regards,
    Imagine whirled peas

    Peace, Love, And Superior Firepower






    Bellson

  8. #18
    Citizen, Patriot, Ranger bellson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dutigaf View Post
    this is where i disagree with you..

    and heres the story of why because i actually know this from fact & real discussions with the actual people behind these.


    ANY AR LOWER COMBO SHOULD ONLY COST THIS MUCH.

    simple as that. the ENTIRE reason the man came up with these and put them out was he was totally disgusted by the BS that the company's put out there and the price gouging that they all do to us... the purchasers.

    They actually contractually LIMIT what can be charged for these & anyone caught charging more than the agreed price for them is removed from being able to sell them.

    his entire philosophy on these is to make a little, let the retailer make a little and save the end user a little.

    he keeps his price set, he keeps the sellers profit range set.... which in turn controls what "we" pay for them.

    as to failure rates? he has sold 10's of thousands of these in the last 2 years. that part i know for sure.

    has there been some failures? SURE. have ANY of them ever came back to be proven the fault of the style of manufacture? verses say alteration or application?

    they are a POLYMER. not ABS plastic, not rubber, NOT VULCAN, NOT HESSE.

    i spent a lot of time on the phone with the actual guy who makes these before he ever went wide open to the public with them to make sure that it was gonna be safe before we put them on our board OR before i strapped a 50bmg sniper upper to one. NO im not going to give you his phone number as he totally avoids this type of conversation and says the product stands on its own.

    we've sold over a couple hundred just on the sites im on in the last 2 years with not a single complaint or failure and im not the only one who has put a 50bmg on one.

    even if you did have a failure: is there anyone else out there giving you a LIFETIME replacement warranty on the lower and the FCG of their units?

    these obviously wont be for everyone, just like some people wont own a GLOCK.

    thats all fine and dandy, everyone makes their own purchases/decisions.

    but you shouldnt run a mans product down when you dont know ANYTHING about it, dont own it, havent used it, never tested it.

    hold out judgement until you have tried one out.

    Hi Dutigaf,

    Just want to say this....Hesse sucks. Vulcan sucks less. The V15 Carbon Aramid lower does not suck..And I have been reliably informed that this lower is made for Vulcan, not by Vulcan.

    My point? I like the Vulcan V15 Carbon lowers. My opinion. I think they are great. I want to buy more of them. My Vulcan V15 Carbon Aramid Lower is just fine even after 11,000 rounds (roughly).

    Just sayin....
    Imagine whirled peas

    Peace, Love, And Superior Firepower






    Bellson

  9. #19
    aka: SDK1968 dutigaf's Avatar
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    Bellson: i hear ya bud.

    but THESE ARE NOT VULCAN OR HESSE OR CARBON FIBER.

    thats what im trying to get across here. someone just tossed that into the mix of the conversation and now these poor guys are getting lumped into someone else's mess.

    NOT VULCAN
    NOT HESSE
    NOT JOKEN
    NOT CARBON FIBER

    but back on topic a little more: lets talk about that "plastic" FCG. :-)

    hammers:
    its actually quite impressive and will light surplus stuff with no problem and that includes 5.45 and 5.56 with out even a spring change!

    i bought spare Hammers thinking there was no way they could hold up... ive got over 5K on one of these already and theres not a mark on it anywhere.

    trigger? trigger is no better or worse than any other factory AR trigger and the actual "feel" of it is more "square" if you know what i mean. think the actual pull on this is probably 4lbs or something close. but for thsoe guys who think they are snipers with an AR? they probably wont like it.

    the discon: its NEVER failed or slipped and it is a very POSITIVE engagement. especially if your using this FCG in a conversion pack. not had one that didnt work with the hammers & thats way better than i can say for lots of other name brand AR FCG's that dont work together straight out of the packages.

    for anyone who wants to try one of these? my garage is always available for fellow gunbuilders & you can make yoru own mind up.

    but for someone wanting a lightweight, affordable AR with a LIFETIME guarantee?

    its tough to beat $99.

    heres a pic of it on my 5.7x28 which is a fantastic application with this...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    say what you mean & mean what you say


  10. #20
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    as cheap as these things are we should test one!

    there is a kid out here. a 200lb teenager that keeps breaking the stock off his 10/22.

    now if this kid can get one month out of one of these plastic jobs before it is in two or three pieces i would give the polymer/plastic the OK.

    now this kid could certainly break a 70 series forging --but i think he would get a year or two out of it first.

    we should start a pool and destructive test by getting Tommy set up with one!

    maybe we should have a few side bets?? what ya say?--LOL

    well i call Tommy a kid but he is 20 years old. he wanted to join the USMC last year but backed out cause he found out they did PT!

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