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Thread: Composite Lowers...

  1. #21
    aka: SDK1968 dutigaf's Avatar
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    im guessing your way out west?

    cause if your around my area and want to test/shoot these just let me know.

    i live pretty close to Big Al and 555th.... so thats as close to saying my actual addy in public as we get. you can contact me for details if you need them.

    one of the best things about these is when you throw one on the polymer 22lr upper and give it to your kids... the length adjusts for them adn the weight is not an issue.

    it makes a squirrel slaying special. :-)
    say what you mean & mean what you say


  2. #22
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    i live in central arkansas, if that was what your asking. i got a FFL that has been transferring lowers for me for decades.

    AR15 parts, rifles, magazines, receivers, kits: Plum Crazy Complete Lower Receiver, Complete Lower Receivers

    notice over at CT they got five reviews and one of them broke on the front pins-- these are buyers that got their PC's from CT.

    some of you polymer guys need to get a 0% forging from DSA and machine one out, that is some tough/hard stuff. just try it cutting/milling with an even slightly dull bit--LOL! to break one of these you got to work your ass off.

    to get a polymer that strong ain't going to be cheap. with some of these( plumb crazy) breaking just taking off the castle nut that don't inspire much confidence.



    i have had a bunch of plastic firearms. a nylon 66, several glocks, i once had a bushmaster m17S, taurus OSS and a cav-arms polymer lower.


    ALL of them are made with another polymer that is not brittle and they were designed for the polymer used.

    the cav-arms had a few failures mostly because some gommers put rifle buffers in them that bottomed out the tube when fired. and a couple came apart at the seems probably because they wern't joined properly. the cav-arms is mostly strong enough,though the thin areas around the pins are a cause for some concern with me. it is stout enough but i don't think it is as stout as a forging.

    the cav is reinforced/ much thicker and uses a built in stock to get rid of that weak breakage prone castle-nut area.

    sure you can make a lower out of anything --i could probably make one out of wood and it would work fine--for a "time" , a week, month or maybe just days, hours or even seconds??--LOL

    i am not slamming polymers, but any polymer lower needs to be designed for the polymer that is used if it is going to have much chance lasting very long.

    not long ago there were lowers for $49 shipped, LPKs for $49 and some cheapo commercial stock kits go for $29. prices are up some, the least expensive forgings go for about $60 bucks now so you can build a forged lower/stock/lpk for what???? $140-$150?

    so if you have to toss the plastic LPK your going to have the same $$ in the polymer as the forgings--

    so the economics of the polymer you save $40-$50 your giving up a lot of strength and wear resistance just to save $40-$50!

    what i don't get about polymer lower makers is WHY they think they have to make an exact copy of an aluminum forged part?

    you ever see a automobile accident where one of these newer cars with the plastic bumpers gets hit? my old-lady hit a new caddy a while back with her old 90s "beer-can quality" GMC van. the caddy blew apart like a broken egg and was totaled, had to be loaded on a wrecker in pieces.

    the 90s GMC van the plastic grill broke and lost one headlight. she drove the van home.

    that 90s van ain't known for strength or having thick steel either.


    sure you could make a "good" lower from a polymer, but it ain't gonna look like a forged one and you going to have to use some expensive polymers and methods to get a durable part.

    so when i see a cheap polymer lower that is identical to forgings --yea i hear alarm bells--

    sure it will be good enough for some but i would not expect to be like a forging or hold up like one. there seems to be lots of "IF" involved.

    it may last IF you don't slam the butt down too hard, IF you don't over torque the castle nut, IF there is no bumps or binds, IF you don't get rough with the front pins, IF the hammer don't ride the bolt, IF you don't engage the safety with the hammer in the wrong position--

    they seem well "fiddely" to me. i keep hearing well theres thousands tens of thousands of these out there? well if your going by that how many forgings are out there? hell we don't even know but at least 10 to one on the polymers, probably closer to 100 to 1 or more a thousand to one sounds more like it.

    i have seen many forged lowers run through hell by boots, dragged, dropped, tossed, run over, then return to the range and have the hell shot out of them, next day do it again. a GI lower probably sees 50K plus rounds in its 30+ year life. many on the training units will see far more than just 50K.

    can a boot break one? -- i think i saw one break and under the conditions it broke i figure any weapon would have broke.


    can this polymer survive a bunch of boots? last for decades of such abuse? and do it for $50 less??

    that is the questions i am asking. the maker claims it is "superior" to a forging?? i am an old native american and i say "HOW"?

  3. #23
    GuncoHolic Sprat's Avatar
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    I think for some of us its the plastic over metal ( either steel or alum) glock vs sig, like wood over plastic stocks

    personally I always prefered wood over plastic, until I started building ar's. I also prefered alum & steel over polymers, but all my modern walthers and glocks are polymers, but boy I love my alum sigs. I am old enough to remember when alum frames first came out, folks were not keen on those either

    I am thinking this thread is more about preference than durability and structural integrety

    on another note I prefer not to go through a FFL if I can help it, my reference to building my own ar lowers was for this reason. I don't have not problem going the FFL route if I see a minty Walther P-5 or P-88 in the glass case, but for a AR lower not me

    sprat
    Sprat and sprat1 are one and the same.

  4. #24
    Gunco Good ole boy kernelkrink's Avatar
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    Caddy versus van has more to do with age than materials. Car makers have learned to make cars lighter and just as safe by creating "Crumple Zones", easily damaged, pushed back areas at likely points of impact along with a reinforced passenger compartment. The car is totalled by design, but the passenger is kept safe because the car materials absorbed the impact. Your older steel cans may only get a dent, but more force of impact is transmitted to the occupants. The caddy took the force of the impact and disentegrated as designed, the van would have had more damage had she hit another 90s GMC.

    Today we have airbags and totalled cars, in the 50s they had steel dashboards and minor damage in a wreck. They just hosed off the dash, put a new bumper on, and resold the car!

    Buddy of mine has been wanting an AR for weeks now, got his tax refund check burning a hole in his wallet! I keep telling him, show me what ya want and I'll help ya build it for at least $100 less than what the dealer wants. Last night he brought home a flattop Bushmaster Carbon 15. The model with the Al type lower but made in CF. Popped the rear takedown pin, no open. Popped the front, it moved but the rear was stuck. Grabbed both pieces and yanked, the two came apart. The rear pin was not clearing the opening in the lower, either the pin has too short a track in it, or the detent pin hole is too far in towards the center. Ripped a nice piece of the upper lug off, clear scrape mark. Showed him how to take down the parts for cleaning, then reassembled. Still stuck! He had 3 mags, two AL and one steel Bushmaster mag. Bushmaster mag fell out like it should, you have to hammer the AL in with your hand. Remington oughta be ashamed that one got out. Light weight, though. Feels like a toy.

  5. #25
    Gunco Member bulrich's Avatar
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    I have had a Bushmaster carbon 15 pistol for 8 years now and have had no problems with it other than what you said about the rear take down pin.

  6. #26
    Citizen, Patriot, Ranger bellson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dutigaf View Post
    Bellson: i hear ya bud.

    but THESE ARE NOT VULCAN OR HESSE OR CARBON FIBER.

    thats what im trying to get across here. someone just tossed that into the mix of the conversation and now these poor guys are getting lumped into someone else's mess.

    NOT VULCAN
    NOT HESSE
    NOT JOKEN
    NOT CARBON FIBER

    but back on topic a little more: lets talk about that "plastic" FCG. :-)

    hammers:
    its actually quite impressive and will light surplus stuff with no problem and that includes 5.45 and 5.56 with out even a spring change!

    i bought spare Hammers thinking there was no way they could hold up... ive got over 5K on one of these already and theres not a mark on it anywhere.

    trigger? trigger is no better or worse than any other factory AR trigger and the actual "feel" of it is more "square" if you know what i mean. think the actual pull on this is probably 4lbs or something close. but for thsoe guys who think they are snipers with an AR? they probably wont like it.

    the discon: its NEVER failed or slipped and it is a very POSITIVE engagement. especially if your using this FCG in a conversion pack. not had one that didnt work with the hammers & thats way better than i can say for lots of other name brand AR FCG's that dont work together straight out of the packages.

    for anyone who wants to try one of these? my garage is always available for fellow gunbuilders & you can make yoru own mind up.

    but for someone wanting a lightweight, affordable AR with a LIFETIME guarantee?

    its tough to beat $99.

    heres a pic of it on my 5.7x28 which is a fantastic application with this...
    Cool on all of the above.

    BTW: Nice rifle! That is what I was thinking of...
    Imagine whirled peas

    Peace, Love, And Superior Firepower






    Bellson

  7. #27
    GuncoHolic twa2471's Avatar
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    I STILL DON"T LIKE PLASTIC GUNS, Period, gimmie real steel!!!!!!!!!

  8. #28
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    Talking

    here is a few plumb crazy plastic lowers that bit the big one--

    plastic the new super fruit!

    it is amazing what a little JB weld can fix!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #29
    Gunco Member Florida Marine's Avatar
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    Mine is set to hit the FFL tomorrow...

    Gotta make a run down to him, since I am betting that a transfer on base would not be a good idear...

    Going to look at a Del-Ton lightweight upper for this. Or the Dissapator, for some reason that style screams BUY me.
    I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all.
    Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders

  10. #30
    Gunco Member bulrich's Avatar
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    I have two on the way. I plan on torture testing one of them.

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