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Thread: M16s Nam. Now Iraq. ??

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    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    Post M16s Nam. Now Iraq. ??


    Talking to my neighbor yesterday. He is a Viet-Nam vet Marine. He was early Nam and was one of the unlucky Vets to get the "Bad" M-16s that were shipped over there.
    I guess the horror stories were true about jamming and doing bad things when needed.
    Mine, a later issue, never failed me. It always went bang when I pulled the trigger.
    We have a lot of Iraq vets joining the site.
    Are these weapons working for you guys in the Sand Box??
    I see pictures of the special ops guys and a lot of them seem to be carrying AKs.
    What is up with the M16 over there???
    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


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    Gunco Veteran Frogman's Avatar
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    My first experience in using an M16 was in BUDS training, class 49 in 69. It was a steralized
    gun left over from the Kennedy misadventure in Cuba I was told. As long as I kept it clean
    it worked fine. The ammo made the difference, some of it was almost as bad as black powder. I think we got better ammo because it was always getting wet in training. As long as it was used up in a few days, it would work after being dunked in fresh or salt water.

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    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogman View Post
    My first experience in using an M16 was in BUDS training, class 49 in 69. It was a steralized
    gun left over from the Kennedy misadventure in Cuba I was told. As long as I kept it clean
    it worked fine. The ammo made the difference, some of it was almost as bad as black powder. I think we got better ammo because it was always getting wet in training. As long as it was used up in a few days, it would work after being dunked in fresh or salt water.
    Frogman. Not to change the subject. But I am going down to the Viet-Nam vets reunion. Patches, Gallager and the whole crew of you guys shows up there. P.M on the way.
    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


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    Gunco Rookie PrivateJoker's Avatar
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    I never had a problem with mine over there...always went bang when it was supposed to, and never jammed. I cleaned it every day (sometimes twice or more) with compressed air, never lubed it, and it slept in my sleeping bag with me. We learned quickly that CLP+sand=concrete/abrasive slurry. We actually had to put on butt down on the ground and stand (jump, kick, hammer, etc.) on the charging handle to get it open. After that, they went bone dry.
    "One hundred rounds do not constitute firepower. One hit constitutes firepower." ? Gen. Merritt Edson, USMC



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    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateJoker View Post
    I never had a problem with mine over there...always went bang when it was supposed to, and never jammed. I cleaned it every day (sometimes twice or more) with compressed air, never lubed it, and it slept in my sleeping bag with me. We learned quickly that CLP+sand=concrete/abrasive slurry. We actually had to put on butt down on the ground and stand (jump, kick, hammer, etc.) on the charging handle to get it open. After that, they went bone dry.
    God Bless our Iraq Vets.
    Interesting. Thank you. I kept hearing conflicting reports. Pro and con.
    Like I say, mine always worked fine. Even with very few cleanings.
    Hell they did not even give us cleaning kits. Go figure.
    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


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    Gunsmith Fritz's Avatar
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    The good buddy of mine (sitting right next to me at current time) is a marine, and he did three tours in Iraq. I read him your post and this was his response.

    "The M-16 and the M-4 will work in the thick of the s*** if you keep them clean. A dirty weapon with tight tolerances is going to be prone to jamming. But the ss109 and black hills ammo that they are using over there has been designed to run in the M-16s and that has eliminated many of the problems associated with that operating system.

    The reason you see the AKs in use, is because in CQ scenarios, they are just better suited. When clearing a house the short barrel, heavier projectile, and fully automatic capability are better than the M-16 with it's longer barrel, lighter projectile, and three round burst. The weaknesses of the AK are not apparent in the ranges encountered in house clearing, and those of the M-16 are.

    The M-16 is much better suited for an open battlefield (as in the open desert etc), it allows you to engage opposition before they come into their effective range. The AK is just better in close quarters."

    And that sir, is straight from the horse's mouth.

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    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    Wow. Interesting. Tell the Marine I said Welcome home.
    I keep watching these shows on T.V. and seeing re-enactments of shoot outs over there and the 16s jamming. So this is interesting input you guys are giving.
    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


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    Gunco Rookie PrivateJoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4thIDvet View Post
    I keep watching these shows on T.V. and seeing re-enactments of shoot outs over there and the 16s jamming.
    It's because the blanks they use get the rifle dirty .

    Seriously though, if you're out on a patrol, you put 100-150 rounds (alot, but not unheard of) through it without a chance to clean it, it's more likely to jam. Add sand, and you've got yourself a very expensive cudgel.
    "One hundred rounds do not constitute firepower. One hit constitutes firepower." ? Gen. Merritt Edson, USMC



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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateJoker View Post
    It's because the blanks they use get the rifle dirty .

    Seriously though, if you're out on a patrol, you put 100-150 rounds (alot, but not unheard of) through it without a chance to clean it, it's more likely to jam. Add sand, and you've got yourself a very expensive cudgel.
    I have heard stories the Marines use live ammo. Is this true. Damn it is great having you Iraq vets on the sight.
    In Nam our weapons would get filthy, wet, dirty, uncleaned, and the darn things kept on ticking. Hell the two times I shot it, it worked.
    Good to hear from the real deal on this question. Thank You.
    Could you guys carry an AK if you wanted one. Or was that a no go. I am sure it varied from unit to unit.
    I am going to the Nam reunion in a few weeks and I will have a bunch of Picts for you guys. Lot of Iraq vets show up and we love it. You guys are the best of the best. All of you.
    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


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    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    my m-series worked well in the dust and sand IF you took the proper precautions.

    and had good mags.

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