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Thread: a stronger AR-bolt-is it possible?

  1. #11
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j427x View Post
    the strength of a good bolt in 5.56 is not a question.
    Agreed. Some designs are stronger but the AR bolt is stong enough.
    if the extractor was made a bit thinner--giving a little more meat for the lugs to hold to the bolt? would the extractor still be functional???
    I believe so and here's why. The 7.62x39 is a tapered cartridge and therefore requires much less force to extract vs. a "tube" style cartridge that inherently has more friction such as the 5.56 design. Thus, a smaller extractor on an AR style bolt makes sense to me. Or a fluted chamber like the Germans did with the G3.

    I don't know how small it could go, but couldn't you also have an extractor that straddles a lug, providing 2 exractor fingers touching the base? Just thinking aloud.
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  2. #12
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hcpookie View Post
    Agreed. Some designs are stronger but the AR bolt is stong enough.

    I believe so and here's why. The 7.62x39 is a tapered cartridge and therefore requires much less force to extract vs. a "tube" style cartridge that inherently has more friction such as the 5.56 design. Thus, a smaller extractor on an AR style bolt makes sense to me. Or a fluted chamber like the Germans did with the G3.

    I don't know how small it could go, but couldn't you also have an extractor that straddles a lug, providing 2 exractor fingers touching the base? Just thinking aloud.
    never thought of straddeling a lug--but that is not a bad concept!! you might be able to leave a little more meat for the lugs that way.

    as far as the taper that i am not sure about that being a problem. my colt and my home brew CAR extract fine--although i did have to play around with the extractor spring pressure on the M-1sales bolt to get it working. oddly the M-1 bolt was backwards in its response to more extractor spring pressure. the more pressure the harder it was to extract rounds.

    i have read somewhere that the gas system on the AR when in operation can jam the round deeper into the chamber and cause it to hang in the chamber. this is a slight possibility but i have never experienced a problem--so far.

    on thing on examination of AR extractors is that the cut for the rim of the round is much deeper on a 7.62 bolts extractor. which might be why 7.62x39 extractors sometimes fail when combined with an overly strong extractor spring system. YMMV--

  3. #13
    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    [quote=jroberts1968;539599]The bottom line is the AR in itself is a week design and that is why we are the only country to adopt this system. I have several and enjoy shooting them but lets face fact there are better wheels out there. If the bureaucrats in DC and the DOD ever got there moral compass in the correct direction our troops would be equipped with the best. Now that the F22 is scrapped maybe our guys can get up armoe and some cleaning kits. Sorry Just spoke to a couple of friends from the sandbox and I am sending them cleaning supplies and replacement parts.[/quote

    Sorry to bust into your thread j4. But why the hell are you having too send cleaning supplies to our heroes in the sand?????
    Mother Friggin Haliburton is charging the Guberment $95 for a load of laundry and those guys cant get cleaning equipment. What the F&*(K am I reading.
    Tanvil had a thread going on sending scopes to guys over there. WTF else are we not hearing.
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  4. #14
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    Postak

    [quote=4thIDvet;540601]
    Quote Originally Posted by jroberts1968 View Post
    The bottom line is the AR in itself is a week design and that is why we are the only country to adopt this system. I have several and enjoy shooting them but lets face fact there are better wheels out there. If the bureaucrats in DC and the DOD ever got there moral compass in the correct direction our troops would be equipped with the best. Now that the F22 is scrapped maybe our guys can get up armoe and some cleaning kits. Sorry Just spoke to a couple of friends from the sandbox and I am sending them cleaning supplies and replacement parts.[/quote

    Sorry to bust into your thread j4. But why the hell are you having too send cleaning supplies to our heroes in the sand?????
    Mother Friggin Haliburton is charging the Guberment $95 for a load of laundry and those guys cant get cleaning equipment. What the F&*(K am I reading.
    Tanvil had a thread going on sending scopes to guys over there. WTF else are we not hearing.

    well lots of things are screwed up because of the pay-ola way the government operates. i suppose you could get "15ed" for having a contraband non issue cleaning kit the way the DOD operates these days.

    as for the F22 i don't think it getting the can has any correlation to the GI in the field getting much needed stuff. the $$ saved will likely get pigonholed for some other 'feel-good" project.

  5. #15
    Gunco Rookie tony549's Avatar
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    Default 9310 Alloy Bolts

    I saw these recently on the following website:
    AR15 Performance, Made in USA, AR 15 uppers, piston operated tactical upper, 5.56, 6.8spc, custom precision barrels

    These are supposedly stronger, but I haven't seen much user feedback.
    There are new design features that should work to reduce stresses at the lugs.

  6. #16
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    i think that is the same as the mill-spec steel for the bolts. $99 for a good 7.62x39/6.5G bolt ain't that bad of a price though.

  7. #17
    Gunco Regular yarro's Avatar
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    Before everyone started putting verticle grips on the front, most bolts in 5.56 broke at the cam pin hole. Both of my high milage ones did as well as both my chromed bolts(improper post plating treatment results in embrittlment). You can actually pull back on the front grip hard enough to pull the barrel slightly down as the upper can have slightly loose barrel fit and this area of the receiver is weak so it can flex. Hanging all kinds of accessories off the front of the gun make this worse. This all causes uneven lug engagement. The top lugs break as a result.

    -yarro

  8. #18
    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    j427x, I've been researching a fast ar15 6mm round for a shits and giggles build and was shown a newly esigned bolt for the ar15. It's from the same company tony549 linked to, and has been added in the past two years. 6MMBR Bolt & Extension for AR15 It's claiming to hold up to a 6mm 105gr bullet at 3000+fps with a .473" case head. It's pretty close to what remington says is unsafe for it's 30ar and the reason they went with a ar10 sized bolt on it. I'm leaning towards a 6mm dasher upper using this bolt and barrel extension put on a remington 700 barrel.

  9. #19
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    Sold!

    Quote Originally Posted by moleman View Post
    j427x, I've been researching a fast ar15 6mm round for a shits and giggles build and was shown a newly esigned bolt for the ar15. It's from the same company tony549 linked to, and has been added in the past two years. 6MMBR Bolt & Extension for AR15 It's claiming to hold up to a 6mm 105gr bullet at 3000+fps with a .473" case head. It's pretty close to what remington says is unsafe for it's 30ar and the reason they went with a ar10 sized bolt on it. I'm leaning towards a 6mm dasher upper using this bolt and barrel extension put on a remington 700 barrel.
    yea this is interesting.

    looks like it would be THE set up for that military round everybody keeps dreaming up. and it keeps everything in a compact size required for it to stay in the little AR!

  10. #20
    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    Looking through their website it looks like they offer it in two sizes. The .473" size and a smaller one for x39 size IIRC. There is also a 6mm turbo 40 that is based off of the ppc that is close in velocity for what I'm looking for (105gr at 2850fps). I have found the drawings for a dasher reamer (its basically an improved 6mm bench rest) so I'm leaning towards that right now.

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