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Army tested steel cased ammo in m16

4K views 41 replies 14 participants last post by  j427x 
#1 ·
Vietnam War: M-16 M-14 and Other Rifle Groups: Department of Defense Reports, Field Manuals, and Training Film


about half way down the page in the link you'll see where the army tested a batch of about 21,000 rounds of steel cased 5.56 ammo in m16 rifles.

the army deemed it good enough except for it rusting after being exposed to the elements.

now i have seen mall-ninjas go on and on about how bad steel is for an AR-15,m16--LOL

i would think that a 21,000 round test would be pretty solid in facts.
 
#2 ·
The biggest probem with the typical steel case ammo is the polymer coating or the laquer coating the usually comes on it. If you can get copper washed or zinc coated like the silver bear then it is great for the AR. You can shoot the coated stuff but it tends to gum it up a bit.
 
#4 ·
the sometimes questionable powder and the steel jacketed bullets are more of a concern to me on the russian made ammo than the steel cases.

i have been shooting the stuff in AR-15 for what seems forever.

on the varnish and coatings sticking to the chamber i haven't encountered it yet in ar or AK.

i do like that golden bear brass washed ammo. all the russian ammo seems a tad dirty and slightly under pressure for me lately but not enough to worry about --except some batches of tula--LOL

and wouldn't an AK be affected by that same varnish build up in the chamber?
 
#5 ·
With all the damp weather down here in Florida. I give all my ammo a good dipping in wheel bearing grease before I take it outside.
Not too thick. Just enough too make it slip in the chamber easier.
I tried motor oil, but it was getting splashed on my glasses.
Cant tell for sure. But my buddy told me it makes the bullet go faster. :confused:
 
#7 ·
I wish more people hated steel cased ammo, more sales for us. only issue i have ever had was with some .40sw wolf, steel case was splitting every 4 or 5 round stiil feeded and ejected ok tho. Oh and my buddy was bitching about some of the tula .223 but he pull 20 rounds and put diffrent powder in it (varget I think) and it shot fine.
 
#8 ·
While in the Service many many years ago. With the original M-16s and ammo.
We beat the dog piss out of our weapons, mags, ammo.
Never cleaned them, left our ammo in the dirt, slapped a mag in and they ran full auto. Accuracy. Hell I dont know??
After they aired out the problems with the powder. Ours ran just fine.
Oh hell. Their was jamming problems on both sides. Malfunctions.
The poor Marine kids got the first bad ones.
After that, rack it shoot it.
 
#9 ·
The main thing I've heard about the steel cased ammo is "it wears out the extractor and bolt faster", it might but no one has shown it yet or how many rounds it takes to do it.
 
#10 ·
mine is not a scientific test bay any means. but after thousands of rounds i can't say i noticed much if any more wear than anything else.

but steel ammo is BAAD! it ruins mall-ninja weapons and makes you have small sexual organs!:crybaby:

(ps i hope to see some on sale)--LOL
 
#11 ·
tell me what you think about this..."the truth about wolf ammo

[video=youtube;VR3fi1wCSmM]http://youtu.be/VR3fi1wCSmM]YouTube - The truth about Wolf ammo[/video]
 
#12 ·
Good video..

tell me what you think about this..."the truth about wolf ammo

YouTube - The truth about Wolf ammo
Who is that guy? Does he have a T.V. show or just on the computer.
My Black-Water buddy gave me his lucky hat just like his, from the Sand Box.
Some kind of small reflector on top, so I guess they knew they were friendlies, when they shined their secret lights on them from the air. :confused:
Bet yah that guy has been their done that. Cool dude.
Interesting he mentioned the shorties could have some problems. As the AR was designed for a 20 inch barrel.
But after I kind of broke my shorties in. Hell. They are eating any type ammo I put in them.
Accuracy. Hell I dont know? Too old too see the targets. But they go bang and down range somewhere.
 
#13 ·
Interesting he mentioned the shorties could have some problems. As the AR was designed for a 20 inch barrel.
But after I kind of broke my shorties in. Hell. They are eating any type ammo I put in them.
did you ever look at the empties to see if there are any extractor marks? I'm wondering how accurate his statement on this is.

Other then that his info sounds good.




Thanks for the video eldogg
 
#15 ·
No.



But I will check. That was my original problem "failure too eject" when I first used them.
Now, a bunch of rounds later, no problems, knock on wood. So I dont know Coils. :confused:
I have a bunch of rounds on the front lawn. I'll go see if I can find one before the lawn mower hits it.
 
#18 ·
you can reload it. it ain't worth the extra effort and the cases start to split after a load or two.

russian ammo is all over the place on powder, i bought some tula 55g 223 that wouldn't cycle but every other round in anything. underloaded and dubious powder was used--worst i have ever had.

but i got some wolf 75gr 223 that seems to be very good. it even punched a dime sized group @ 100m through a bolt gun. and the velocity is right on the money too--for once--LOL so not all russian ammo is underpowered--just some of it--:headbang:
 
#20 ·
Well all I can say is I tried it. When I first got my ar15 (dpms) I shot brass through it. I had no problem. Next I shot some wolf. The 2nd round locked up my rifle. I had to use a cleaning rod to knock out the empty shell. I have since shot lots and lots of brass cases through it without any problem. I decided I would leave the wolf for my ak's to shot. Just my 2 cents.
thanks
daddy-o
 
#26 · (Edited)
I don't know of anyone who has a QUALITY AR having problems
(Turns into a rant)
Actually, every time I see someone post about wolf ammo on arfcom it's a expensive rifle. I believe the last post I looked at it was a DD M4, and it wouldn't cycle the ammo. I then opened my mouth and said any AR should cycle wolf no matter what. It doesn't matter if you paid $500 for it or $1200.

It turned into a big shit storm then like it usually does. I think because I said my del-ton and bushmaster cycled it, and your $1200 AR won't. Then the posts started coming that I never had a quality AR....Yada yada yada........ And then I posted my Colt M4, and FN A4 upper and they shut up. :kick:
 
#34 ·
I'll risk the sake of telling you **** you already probably know as I am late to the party.

Steel cased ammo plauges AR15 because of a couple of different things happening. The steel casing doesn't expand as far and constrict as fast as brass cases do. That causes unburned powder to get past the case leaving deposits in ths chamber that brass casings will get stuck if shot without cleaning the chamber after steel cased ammo is used. The carbine gas system, which by design may try to extract the casing before it has had time to constrict and possibly the force of the extractor hitting the rim of the case as the round enters the chamber is another cause of extractor failure. Add the weaker powder charge and tight chamber there are several causes for malfunction in the AR.

I have only shot 100 rounds of Brown Bear steel cased ammo through my BCM Midlength. Aside from terrible accuracy, it cycled just fine. I really only shoot M193 and M855 through my rifles (including my STG556, BCM AR15 and SIG556) I don't see a need to shoot steel cased 5.56 when brass is easy to find. Now my x39 AR is a project gun made for abuse. It gets only Wolf and what ever cheap 7.62x39 I can find. If the piaton assembly was easy to take apart for cleaning I would only shoot Yugo Surplus. But that is reserved for the AK build.

YMMV
 
#35 ·
I'll risk the sake of telling you **** you already probably know as I am late to the party.

Steel cased ammo plauges AR15 because of a couple of different things happening. The steel casing doesn't expand as far and constrict as fast as brass cases do. That causes unburned powder to get past the case leaving deposits in ths chamber that brass casings will get stuck if shot without cleaning the chamber after steel cased ammo is used. The carbine gas system, which by design may try to extract the casing before it has had time to constrict and possibly the force of the extractor hitting the rim of the case as the round enters the chamber is another cause of extractor failure. Add the weaker powder charge and tight chamber there are several causes for malfunction in the AR.

I have only shot 100 rounds of Brown Bear steel cased ammo through my BCM Midlength. Aside from terrible accuracy, it cycled just fine. I really only shoot M193 and M855 through my rifles (including my STG556, BCM AR15 and SIG556) I don't see a need to shoot steel cased 5.56 when brass is easy to find. Now my x39 AR is a project gun made for abuse. It gets only Wolf and what ever cheap 7.62x39 I can find. If the piaton assembly was easy to take apart for cleaning I would only shoot Yugo Surplus. But that is reserved for the AK build.


you fired 100 rounds of brown bear? and now your an expert?

the US army tested what 23,000 rounds?

i think i'll go with the armys findings.
 
#38 ·
LA Welcome too the forum..

What was the ammo we would have been shooting back in the late 60s.
Brass steel. Hell I dont know?
Someone put up a good post on what we did too the barrels. He was an armorer back in the old days.
He said we destroyed the barrels. Hahhha. Sorry about their luck.
I didnt pay for the ammo and I didnt like their damn war anyway.
Whatever the ammo was.
We put thousands of rounds through without even cleaning them. Darn things kept ticking.
 
#40 ·
What was the ammo we would have been shooting back in the late 60s.
Brass steel. Hell I dont know?
Someone put up a good post on what we did too the barrels. He was an armorer back in the old days.
He said we destroyed the barrels. Hahhha. Sorry about their luck.
I didnt pay for the ammo and I didnt like their damn war anyway.
Whatever the ammo was.
We put thousands of rounds through without even cleaning them. Darn things kept ticking.

i think that was from running the "fun" side of the selector to much 4th!

i got a web page from sig somewhere where they were talking about their 5.56 rifle/carbine.

seems they said their nitrite finished barrels would last 30K plus rounds but only 15k if run "severe" i think that is full-auto.

so on full auto that is $3000 worth of cheap ammo--LOL
 
#39 ·
he,he

barrels are cheap anyway compared to ammo!

a half case of steel 5.56 $99

a 4140 barrel is $115 generally --

i don't know how many rounds a 1-9" 4140 barrel will do before it is shot.

i would wager thousands of dollars of the cheap steel stuff. enough to make the barrel a "disposable" item.

seems like someone tested one on this board and it ran nearly 10K and this is the no chrome 4140s-- similar to the $115 one. i got a couple chrome 4140s that i have lost count of. the seem to have plenty of life left in them.

every once in a while i'll get some russian ammo that don't want to do right --like that half case of tula .223, that is the exception though not the rule.

most of the time the russian made ammo runs fine. every once in a while i get a really good batch like the wolf 75gr stuff. it is printing 1.25" groups from the savage bolt gun. doing just under 2" with my middy.

yea i know the savage can do .40" at 100M but the 1.25 groups is about as good as it will do with ball ammo so this batch is pretty damn good for $4.25 a box!

all this crap about ejector wear and extractor wear? i haven't seem much at all. best i can tell the same as brass.

if the steel cased ammmo had good copper jacketed bullets and good clean powder i think it could do anything the brass ammo could and would wear things about the same.

and that is from my experience with it.

now the army did test a pretty good quantity 20K rounds is a pretty extensive test. i am sure they had better bullets and powder than the russians use. wear and reliability of the steel was the same.

but hey what do we know--were just a bunch of ninjas--LOL
 
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