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Thread: Anybody here tried Sabots in a 7.62X25 carbine?

  1. #11
    Gunco Member 22_boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    I tried thim in a 7.62x39 and has poor results with 45 grain bullets, IM told and have read that you need to use heavier bullets to make them work. I plan some day to try some 69 grain bullets. the twit is not toi fast for the lighter bullets in fact a 1-10 is pretty good for a 45 or 50 grain .22 bullet.
    It's funny you should mention the 22 Reed Express because I have a DI carbine in the caliber.

    I had to make a special magwell adapter for CZ-24 subgun magazine because I could not get the 22 Reed Express rounds to work out of a PPS-43 magazine. the short mag in the picture is a mag I use at the range. The picture below is the full length CZ-24 mag with the 22 Reed Express ammo in it.


    I should be able to get to the range this coming weekend and try the sabots. I have two different loads -- one uses the short Hornady 35gr 22 caliber bullet and the other uses the Sierra 55gr 22 caliber bullet. I actually hope they both work well. I'm not expecting a target rifle, just something that can be used as a nice plinker.

    Edit to add: I was just thinking about your Rommy AK 47 and was wondering if you had any type of muzzle brake or flash hider on it -- even one of those simple angled ones? Any type of muzzle device can have a really bad affect on the sabots. The sabot opens right at the muzzle and if there is anything there it can screw with the accuracy. I decided to use my DI operated Tok carbine and had to remove the flash hider and make a thread protector. I know that some of the Rommy AK's have these simple angled muzzle devices but the fingers on the sabot may be able to touch it as it exits the muzzle.
    Last edited by 22_boomer; 08-28-2011 at 10:55 AM.

  2. #12
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I was just thinking about your Rommy AK 47 and was wondering if you had any type of muzzle brake or flash hider on it --

    NO IT WAS SHOT WITH NO MUZZEL DEVICE. IT SHOULD ALSO BE NOTED THAT THE GUN WILL SHOOT 1" GROUPS OR BETTER WITH HANDLOADS IN 7.62X39. NOITHING WRONG WITH THE GUN.

    I DIDNT DO A LOT OF WORK ON THE THE SABOT LOADS I ONLY TRIED A FEW DIFFERANT LEVELS OF POWDER CHARGES AND ONLY SPENT ONE TRIP TO THE RANGE WORKING ON THESE. i ALREADY HAVE A 1/2" MOA 223 AK SO THERE WAS NO REAL NEED FOR ME TO DEVELOPE A VARMINT LOAD FOR THE X39. I DO HOPE TO RETRY SABOTS INT HE FUTURE FOR A FEW DIFFERANT RIFLES BUT I DONT EXPECT GREAT THINGS. I TIED IT BECAUSE I WAS HOPING TO SHOOT SOME LONG RANGE P DOGS WITH A FACTORY LOOKING AK TO PISS OF A FEW AR GUYS. IT JUST DIDNT WORK FOR THAT. I ENDED UP JUST SHOOTING THEM OUT TO 300 YARDS WITH A 7.62X39 AND A LOT OF RANGE FINDER WORK.

    WHAT KIND OF ACCURACY DOES THE 22 REED YOU HAVE GIVE YOU?? ITS A NEAT ROUND BUT IT DOSENT REALLY DO ANY THING THAT A NUMBER OF BETTER AND CHEAPER ROUNDS TO LOAD ALREADY GIVE. WHAT IS IT FOR THAT A 223 WONT DO LOTS BETTER??? I THOUGHT A 17 CAL VERSION WOULD HAVE FILLED A NICH THAT WASENT UNTILL THE 17 FIRE BALL CAME ALONG.

    A SUPER FAST 22 OR 17 TARGET PISTOL IN A AUTO LOADER WOULD BE COOL. ID LIKE TO CONVERT A M57 FOR SHORT RANGE VARMINT PLINKING.. A 22 MAG WOULD ALSO FIT THE BILL.

    I MAY TRY SOME 75 GR AMAX BULLETS IN A SABOT ON A X39 CASE IN THE FUTURE. THAT WOULD LIKELY GIVE AROUND 3000 FPS OR SO. THE ISSUE IS IF IM SHOOTING .22 CAL AT ANYTHING IT NEEDS TO BE VERY ACCURATE OR ITS POINTLESS. I CAN HIT WHAT I WANT OUT TO 100 YARDS WITH A 7.62 ROUND AND IF A SABOT ROUND CANT GIVE ME ACCURACY AT LONG RANGE WHAT GOOD IS IT OVER THE 30 CAL. I DONT EAT VARMINTS OR PAPER SO I DONT CARE ABOUT THE .30 CAL DOING MORE DAMAGE. THE RECOIL DIFFERANCE IS NOT WORTH REALLY DEBATING AS ITS LIGHT ON EVEN THE X39. SO IF ITS NOT ACCURATE AND COSTS CONSIDERABLY MORE AND IS HARDER TO RELOAD WHAT IS THE POINT??

    IF I COULD GET 1 MOA OUT OF A SABOT LOAD ID BE ALL OVER IT AS IT WOULD ADD VERSITILIATY TO A LOT OF MY GUNS. MY HUNTING PISTOL COULD BE USED ON BUNNYS OR SQUIRLS BUT IT HAS TO BE ACCURATE OR ITS JSUT A WASTE OF TIME MONEY AND AMMO. IT HAS TO OFFER A ADVANTAGE OVER THE ROUND IT REPLACES TO BE USEFULL IMOO.

    HARD TO BEAT A 223 UNLESS YOUR SHOOTING IN THE BASEMENT OR SOME THING AND THEN I HAVE 10-22,S FOR THAT LOL.

    I HAVE THREAD ON MY SABOTS ATTEMTS IN THE CALIBUR CONVERSION AREA HERE.

  3. #13
    Gunco Member 22_boomer's Avatar
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    I was just wondering if there was a muzzle device on your weapon. Most people that try sabots don't mention how the loaded them, what the twist rate is on the barrel, how fast they were driving them -- just they didn't shoot worth a darn. The ones that do get them to shoot well will give a bit of a description of how they loaded them.

    I've seen that comparison with the .223 and some other cartridges. There are a lot of cartridges that will work in the AR-15 and there are people that like them all. The 22 Reed Express can get some good velocity -- close to a 22 hornet -- and is much more quiet than the .223 especially out of a 16" barrel -- and I can shoot the same ammo in my modified CZ-52 pistol.

    I will just be able to get to the range for the first time this weekend so I have no idea how my rounds will shoot. I've tried to look up every problem that people have had with them so I could make adjustements to make mine work better. This is just a wild hair thing for me since I already have the 22 Reed Express but it was something I just had to try.

    I'll try looking up the sabot info you posted.

  4. #14
    3/6 Infantry mtdew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moleman View Post
    I have used the sabots in my 50 hawkins for about the last 20 years. I know it's blasphemy to use sabots in a muzzleloader, but it allows me to shoot a heavier bullet with a higher BC faster than a round ball. I haven't noticed any loss of accuracy using them in the muzzle loader, and none of the deer have complained yet.
    I may be wandering off topic a bit so please forgive me. Moleman, have you tried minie ball in your front end loader? I cast my own and they are the bomb. My .50 and my brothers .45 shoot them better than anything we have tried and the conveiniance of easy loading and no patch is a plus.
    "NA BEAN DON CHAT GUN LAMHAINN"
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  5. #15
    Gunco Member 22_boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtdew View Post
    I may be wandering off topic a bit so please forgive me. Moleman, have you tried minie ball in your front end loader? I cast my own and they are the bomb. My .50 and my brothers .45 shoot them better than anything we have tried and the conveiniance of easy loading and no patch is a plus.
    that's not really off topic. I was hoping to use something like hard cast .22 caliber bullets that were kinda short and at least 55/60gr if the tests go ok. I would have never thought of using cast lead bullets in anything but a 22 rimfire but with the sabots it's no problem. A friend is way ahead of me on the sabots and is using them is a Ruger Blackhawk with a 9" barrel that's chambered is 30 carbine. The twist rate is really bad for the sabots at 1:20 but he is getting 2" groups at 50 yards with the pistol. He is using short cast bullets around something like 45gr -- he is swagging the lead bullets in a die he made. I figure using cast bullets or maybe milsurp bullets might help cut down costs and make for more shooting. I hope the accuracy tests go ok this weekend.

  6. #16
    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    Mtdew, I have tried the lymans great plains bullets and cast lee bullets. I like the sabots better loaded with a hornady .430" 240gr LSWCHP bullet over a 100gr charge. The hollowpoint opens up rapidly doing quite a bit of damage. I've even shot two deer lengthwise angling away from just below the rump on through the opposite front shoulder which was busted on the way out. So I'm getting fantastic performance with them. That performance is why I eventually got a .444 marlin. I'm not sure which one is more accurate though. I use open sights on the hawkins and about all I can do with open sights is about 3" at 100yds WITH ANY GUN. Which is about what I get with the hawkins using sabots or lead bullets. I know the guns are more accurate than that though. I can shoot a peep sight much better at about 1.5"-2" (m1A/AR15, M1) and may eventually put a peep sight on the hawkins if my eyes get much worse.

    I'm sure there's a way to get the sabots to shoot well in centerfire rifles. Once you get the right twist rate and charge weight figured out. But heck thats half the fun.

  7. #17
    Gunco Member 22_boomer's Avatar
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    I finally got the sabots to the range and found that the nice little 35gr Hornady bullets did not do well at all. The best was the 55gr Sierra spire points and that is what I shot at the target below. I had just gotten a short Leapers 3-9 scope that would fit on the carry handle of the carbine and it's not the best scope in the world but I used it to first zero in to the center of the target using commercial Seller&Bellott 7.62 Tokarev ammo. There are two 30 caliber holes that can be see near the target center box or diamond shape. I fired a total of 30 sabots and the majority went into that area that's 1.5" wide and about 2.5" above the two 7.62 holes. As can be see I had flyers that circled the impact area. I placed a quarter in the area to give a reference as to the size of it. I am not a great shot as can be seen by the two 7.62 Tokarev holes not touching so I had a hand in some of the inaccuracy of the sabots. I had to peel the target off the barckboard and stick it on some cardboard to save it. Some of the center section of the impact area was lost when I peeled the target off.

  8. #18
    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    Thats not too shabby Now you can start playing around with the charge weights ect to see if it improves at all. How bad were the 35gr vmax?

  9. #19
    Gunco Member 22_boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moleman View Post
    Thats not too shabby Now you can start playing around with the charge weights ect to see if it improves at all. How bad were the 35gr vmax?
    Thanks for saying that! I should try what you said and see if changing the charge weight makes any difference. I really feel bad about the 35gr bullets -- they didn't shoot worth a darn. They shot just like some people have described shooting sabots -- more like a pattern from a shotgun. They fit in a PPS-43 magazine perfect and the only problem I had was two or three of the short sabots hit something as they fed to the chamber, bent back one of the little fingers, and caused a jam. I didn't have that problem with the longer sabot loads but I was using an M1 Carbine magazine and adapter for those rounds. I did also try them with a GI magazine with a single shot follower and that worked but I figured that was a waste of time when you have an AR. I was thinking that maybe the short 35gr sabots might work better in my CZ-52 pistol.

  10. #20
    Gunco Good ole boy twa2471's Avatar
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    I've had limited results with sabots, I get some OK results but far from "target" aacy. MtDew try the Buffalo "ballettes" in your muzzle loader if it's a side lock, They are awsome!!!! I get 3/4 moa out of an OLD+ punished, $75 CVA timberwolf front stuffer w/ 100gr FFFG!! They are like a ball with a shoulder and no patch required, hint, a bit of extra "crisco" keeps down the leading and fowling, and they come with felt wads. Surprises me and everyone else, best projectile I've found for a round ball type twist, and never had a deer walk away yet! They hit like a brick and they work for me, very well. I've taken over 30 deer with that combo, 1 shot 1 kill every time!!! I even leave my fancy $400 muzzle loaders at home unless it's raining.

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