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Thread: AR novice needs assistance

  1. #11
    GuncoHolic 2ndAmendican's Avatar
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    OK, talked to my local FFL (that is also an AR15 Manufacterer. Makes his own upper/lowers/barrels, so he may be dissing the competition.) and he told me to stay away from PSA products. Especially the BCG's and lowers. Claimed that they are sub standard parts made in China by Aero-something. So now I'm confused again. Recommended his own brand of course, as well as Delton, Spikes, CMMG, Colt, S&W, etc... Said to stay away from PSA, and Rguns, and a few others that I can't remember, as they were all from the same Aero-something manufacturer, but just had the various private labels machined into them.

    J427x, what do you mean about Delton ripping you off on the shipping?

    Basically I am trying to either buy or build a basic, but good quality, dependable M4 style AR15, with a detachable carry handle, for as close to the $700.00 mark as possible. I know that may be unreasonably low, without going through PSA, but that's my goal. And I don't want to wait for a year while one component, then another, and so on, comes up for sale somewhere. I would like to be able to buy/build this over the next few weeks.

    This FFL, James Firearm & Outdoors, in Greer, S.C., recommended his basic lower, along with a Del-Ton M4 parts kit. He said that would give me a good, reliable, quality M4, with good accuracy and long life. Said the only issue with this set-up is that Del-Ton doesn't have the prettiest machining.

    My main issue is that he has a vested interest in selling me his lower for $125.00, versus the $50.00 lower from PSA.
    Enforcement, NOT Amnesty!!!!!!

    "If they’re going to come here illegally, apply for & receive assistance through a corrupted Government agency encouraging this lawless behavior, work under the table & send billions of dollars each year back to their families in Mexico, while bleeding local economies dry, protest in our streets waving their Mexican flags DEMANDING rights, while I have to press ’1′ for English, then they need to be shipped back to where they came from!" -Chad Miller

  2. #12
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndAmendican View Post
    OK, talked to my local FFL (that is also an AR15 Manufacterer. Makes his own upper/lowers/barrels, so he may be dissing the competition.) and he told me to stay away from PSA products. Especially the BCG's and lowers. Claimed that they are sub standard parts made in China by Aero-something. So now I'm confused again. Recommended his own brand of course, as well as Delton, Spikes, CMMG, Colt, S&W, etc... Said to stay away from PSA, and Rguns, and a few others that I can't remember, as they were all from the same Aero-something manufacturer, but just had the various private labels machined into them.

    J427x, what do you mean about Delton ripping you off on the shipping?

    Basically I am trying to either buy or build a basic, but good quality, dependable M4 style AR15, with a detachable carry handle, for as close to the $700.00 mark as possible. I know that may be unreasonably low, without going through PSA, but that's my goal. And I don't want to wait for a year while one component, then another, and so on, comes up for sale somewhere. I would like to be able to buy/build this over the next few weeks.

    This FFL, James Firearm & Outdoors, in Greer, S.C., recommended his basic lower, along with a Del-Ton M4 parts kit. He said that would give me a good, reliable, quality M4, with good accuracy and long life. Said the only issue with this set-up is that Del-Ton doesn't have the prettiest machining.

    My main issue is that he has a vested interest in selling me his lower for $125.00, versus the $50.00 lower from PSA.

    he is full of horse dung. he is trying to steer you into buying his shit.

    AERO is made in washington state. PSA uses governemnt contractor parts from what i have seen there all CMT made like stag and rr--

    i haven't handled any of their lowers but i figure there made by LAR which supplies most of the lowers on the market.

    there is nothing really wrong with a del-ton, i have several uppers made with del-ton parts/barrels.

    i am not crazy about del-tons bolt carrier groups but they are ok but certainly nothing special.

    del-ton is OK for the price but their certainly not the bang-for buck they once were.

    if i was buying a del-ton i would buy it from JSE rather than directly from del-ton.

    one more little thing--- AR-15 parts arn't importable from china, they haven't been importable from china in a long long time. you pal is way out to lunch on that one.


    del-ton is sort of the "low dollar brand" sort of like DPMS or DSA.

    i use lots of their parts there certainly good enough. personally i rarely use their bolt carrier groups though they are good enough a BC-usa. LMT or mill surp carriers don't cost much more so that is what i use mostly.


    the most expensive and critical parts on the ar-15/m16 series are the barrel and the bolt carrier group. my advice is to get the best quality you can afford for them.


    i haven't heard a peep bad about PSA's other than your post. there bolt carriers that i have seen are excellent. they look identical to stag/CMT & their barrels may well be made by del-ton which is a good brand and they use 4150cv steel in their 14.5" and 16" barrels these days so their not far behind bushmaster or colt even. even if they ran that mall-ninja four letter word (DPMS) i have several of their barrels and they all shoot very well.

    another place you should look is over at DSA-- they have good prices and they are related to LMT , they sell a lot on nitrite treated barrels which many think are the cats ass.


    AR15 Lowers & Uppers-D S Arms



    what to buy in your case is what you want. the world is full of m4 type arms and parts , there about as cheap as there going to get , most of the stuff out there is good , hell some even like hess AK-parts and i know they toss in a dew duds--LOL!

  3. #13
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    now this is the thing you want to avoid -- or anything like it--


    http://www.gunco.net/forums/f255/moo...29/#post645046


    most of the time when you hear some "old lady" --"rag mouthing" one brand of ar-15 or parts and so on it is just "old lady's trying to screw the other guy while his back is turned." type of thing.

    there are a few real turkeys out there like this "MM" job but there really kind of rare considering how many vendors are out there buying selling and making ar-15 stuff.

  4. #14
    Citizen, Patriot, Ranger bellson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j427x View Post
    he is full of horse dung. he is trying to steer you into buying his shit.

    AERO is made in washington state. PSA uses governemnt contractor parts from what i have seen there all CMT made like stag and rr--

    i haven't handled any of their lowers but i figure there made by LAR which supplies most of the lowers on the market.

    there is nothing really wrong with a del-ton, i have several uppers made with del-ton parts/barrels.

    i am not crazy about del-tons bolt carrier groups but they are ok but certainly nothing special.

    del-ton is OK for the price but their certainly not the bang-for buck they once were.

    if i was buying a del-ton i would buy it from JSE rather than directly from del-ton.

    one more little thing--- AR-15 parts arn't importable from china, they haven't been importable from china in a long long time. you pal is way out to lunch on that one.


    del-ton is sort of the "low dollar brand" sort of like DPMS or DSA.

    i use lots of their parts there certainly good enough. personally i rarely use their bolt carrier groups though they are good enough a BC-usa. LMT or mill surp carriers don't cost much more so that is what i use mostly.


    the most expensive and critical parts on the ar-15/m16 series are the barrel and the bolt carrier group. my advice is to get the best quality you can afford for them.


    i haven't heard a peep bad about PSA's other than your post. there bolt carriers that i have seen are excellent. they look identical to stag/CMT & their barrels may well be made by del-ton which is a good brand and they use 4150cv steel in their 14.5" and 16" barrels these days so their not far behind bushmaster or colt even. even if they ran that mall-ninja four letter word (DPMS) i have several of their barrels and they all shoot very well.

    another place you should look is over at DSA-- they have good prices and they are related to LMT , they sell a lot on nitrite treated barrels which many think are the cats ass.


    AR15 Lowers & Uppers-D S Arms



    what to buy in your case is what you want. the world is full of m4 type arms and parts , there about as cheap as there going to get , most of the stuff out there is good , hell some even like hess AK-parts and i know they toss in a dew duds--LOL!

    J427 is correct in all regards. That he essentially agrees with me is un-important...
    Imagine whirled peas

    Peace, Love, And Superior Firepower






    Bellson

  5. #15
    Gunco Regular logan09's Avatar
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    +1 to what j427x said. He's just trying to make you buy his stuff. I've seen it being down hundred's of times.

    Also, Upper receivers/lowers are all forged by Cerro, etc... There just machined by the companies. That said, if you'd like I will post a picture of 3 lowers I have. A spike's(Which has horrible machine marks) My bushmaster which isn't bad, and my PSA which is perfect.

  6. #16
    GuncoHolic 2ndAmendican's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for steering me right. I went by his shop on Saturday, and he is full of sh*t!!!! He tried to snow me on three different subjects, of which I knew more than him on two of them!!!!!!!!! What a dick!!!!! I wouldn't buy a bullet from him, much less a complete firearm, or a lower receiver in this case.

    I think I will go with PSA on this build, and just get another shop to do the transfer on the lower.

    By the way, this guy's company's name is almost too close to Palmetto State Armory. His is, Palmetto State Defense, in Greer, S.C.
    Enforcement, NOT Amnesty!!!!!!

    "If they’re going to come here illegally, apply for & receive assistance through a corrupted Government agency encouraging this lawless behavior, work under the table & send billions of dollars each year back to their families in Mexico, while bleeding local economies dry, protest in our streets waving their Mexican flags DEMANDING rights, while I have to press ’1′ for English, then they need to be shipped back to where they came from!" -Chad Miller

  7. #17
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    there is an old saying in the DOD

    "90% of the cost of a weapons system is in the last 10%."

    i think the m16/AR-15 world is sort of like that.

    it would be more like that last 50% in cost to get that last 10% of improvements. not quite as bad as the DOD!


    with the market flooded with ar-15s and parts there is lots of deals out there.

    the thing is decide what you want before hand and know what your buying.

    there is nothing wrong with plunking down $1K for a saber, DD or LMT made shooter IF that is what you want. just don't let some ninja talk you into thinking you have to spend that much to get an ar-15 that runs well.

    the reverse is also true --there is nothing wrong with building a $500 AR and they can be made to run well, they just don't have all the gold plated stuff or a big name.

    it all really what you want, if you know what you want , you'll know what you'll have to spend and be happy with then end product.

  8. #18
    Gunco Member nfafan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndAmendican View Post
    <snip>

    Claimed that they are sub standard parts made in China by Aero-something. So now I'm confused again. Recommended his own brand of course, as well as Delton, Spikes, CMMG, Colt, S&W, etc... Said to stay away from PSA, and Rguns, and a few others that I can't remember, as they were all from the same Aero-something manufacturer, but just had the various private labels machined into them.

    <snip>
    As others have covered; there are a handful of shops in the USA forging and extruding uppers, lowers, LPKs. These outfits are not only making them for their own branded product, but for others as well, with whatever logos and rollmarks are desired.

    No one is talking as everyone is doing it, including Colt.

    A lot of Call Of Duty Commandos would be real emabarrassed to discover who actually made the parts that are in their gun. I have an Aero-made lower marked as Surplus Arms and Ammo.

    As for RGUNs - I have read of someone claiming their lowers had mis-aligned holes. Who knows, but I am sure it it were true, RGUNs would stand behind their product.

    You have to remember that on the 'net - you don't know me, and I don't know you. We can say anything.

  9. #19
    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    I don't think you'll ever regret getting a nice completed ar from a respected manufacturer especially one from Will and his boys. However, All of my ar15's except one were bought as kits. Get your upper already put together and you won't need any specialized tools that the average house doesn't already have.

  10. #20
    3/6 Infantry mtdew's Avatar
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    Ar15 was the easiest build I have ever done. I would recomend building one over buying a complete rifle,even for a novice,altho it may not be for those w/ NO mech ability.I wound up investing $625 and it is a great shooter.Now I saved some money by installing bbl myself, but like moleman said a complete upper keeps u from having to do that. Everything else is plug and play.
    "NA BEAN DON CHAT GUN LAMHAINN"
    Clan MacPherson
    "CREAG DHUBH"!

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