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problems with 5.45x39 Upper

2K views 27 replies 9 participants last post by  Bolt2Bounce2 
#1 · (Edited)
About 4 mos ago I purchased a Smith and Wesson M&P 5.45x39 AR upper.Installed the supplied x heavy hammer spring. From the beginning, I had light primer strikes/failures to fire on military surplus ammo both Bulgarian and Russian. It fired about 80% on comercial ammo.I ordered a wolf extra power hammer spring with no change in result. Took it to a local gunsmith and he sugested the chamber was cut too deep. I called customer service and sent it back to S&W with a letter outlining the failure to fire issue. It was sent back to me with a used scratched and scribed on(with no of rnds and lines) shop mag stating the failure to feed issue was resolved new mag........Hmmmm So I called Customer service again a shipping label was sent and off it went again on nov 4.after 2+ weeks of leaving messages for the customer service rep i've been dealing with, I recieved a return call from S&W today....They now state they test fired it and there is nothing wrong with the upper I must have an issue with my lower??? Really?? It functions flawlessly with two different 5.56mm uppers,a 7.62x39 upper and 6.8 upper but not thiers. anyone else had issues with S&W service any suggestions??? I'm likely replacing the barrel unless someone here has a better idea...Anybody got anything?:thankyou:
 
#4 ·
I understand there is something amiss but i guess if it's not blowing up in my face it's my problem not Smith and Wesson's. I'm waiting to hear from a customer service supervisor will post when i hear something. I have never heard of anyone having this much trouble with a 5.45x39 upper especially S&W but if it would happen to anyone it would be me!!!:loopeye:
 
#5 ·
My thought is Geometry, Geometry, Geometry.

My first suspicion would be clearances between hammer fall, and bolt carrier; look for irregular wear that might indicate side-to-side variance in the upper to lower geometry.

Second would be to check head space.

Third would be to check the firing pin, and the firing pin hole in the actual bolt.

Did your upper include a "new" bolt? Did you then assemble that bolt into an existing bolt carrier and existing firing pin? It is a stretch, but I have run into each of these issues in the past in solely 5.56 applications.

These issues are clearly the exception to the rule. They are caused by something, you need to determine what is causing the light strike condition. Take a couple of pics of the primer end of the shell, and tell us if it was a fire or fail.

Just my $0.02....
 
#6 · (Edited)
It was a complete upper assembly including BCG. If i had assembled it i would be investigating where I screwed up. When i get it back if the problem persists i will look into geometry but i used 3 other lowers with the same result on that upper. unfortunately i do not have 5.45x39 go/nogo guages but i will bet you a dollar the bolt closes on a no go guage. i will be buying guages if S&W sends back the upper without addressing the problem......Next step will be buy a replacement barrel. I checked the S&W website it seems the M&P 15 line up has quietly removed the 5.45x39. hmmm me thinks there may have been problems a plenty with the 5.45x39 platform....
 
#7 ·
I sure wouldn't mess around with a new barrel!! I'd get the head space checked at your local smith and go from there. Didn't you already pay enough for that upper to at least expect that it would function??? If it dosn't space I'd tell them where to stuff it!!! Just me though.
 
#8 ·
the primers arn't set deep on the 5.45 ammo like they are on the 7.62x39 --

the 7.62x39 system in the AR can have light strikes and the fix is a trimmed bolt,slightly longer firing pin and/ or stronger hammer spring.

i have never had to do any of the extras on a 5.45 i do install the wolf XP hammer spring in the 5.45 conversion --not a have to by any means and it is only a $3 part.

my thinking is the head space is off--YMMV--!!!
 
#9 ·
I called my 7.62x39 ar "Problem child" until i bought an extended firing pin and the wolf hammer spring.I decided to spend the extra money on a S&W to avoid having to tinker with it to make it work. When I first had the problem i ASSumed it would be addressed. well the second time it went in i wasn't so confident. I am so thoroughly torqued off at smith and wesson i can't see straight. Lifetime service my arse. I sent the upper back 2nd time nov 4th. Left messages for my cust service rep every 3 days for the last 2+ weeks and finally get a return call last night.After telling me there is nothing wrong with my upper and i firmly disagreed, he said "i see my supervisor let me discuss this with her i'll call you back in a couple minutes". 15 hours later I'm Steaming :ranting:!!!
 
#10 ·
Are you using a standard hammer or one of the lighter quicker lock time hammers? I'd also sure try taking your longer firing pin and swaping it out with the one in the 5.45 upper. I'd think a chamber with headspace excessive enough to cause misfiring would also be caught fairly easy with a headspace guage. You'd also think the extractor would hold the round close enough to the bolt face for it to fire even if the headspace was excessive. Is S&W using the same exact type ammo you're using, if not the primers in yours might be harder and causing the problems. Their customer service does suck though. I sent a pistol in years ago for some damage. It took about two months for what they said was 10 days to two weeks for turn around time.
 
#11 ·
Everything in the lower is standard except the hammer spring. i would trade out the firing pins if it were here but it's still in springfield mass ......Update i called at 11:30 to Talk to a cust service supervisor. they stated she would call back no return call yet.....3 and a half hours tick tock tick tock.... must be busy.......
 
#12 ·
Update.... The day came and went no return call from the Cutsomer service Mgr/supervisor. This explains alot. Leadership and other things roll down hill. Monday I will be contacting her supervisor, someone in springfield mass has to be concerned about Smith and Wesson products and service...... will continue to update the thread as things move forward.........
 
#13 ·
5.45's DO have hard primers --there not deep set like the 7.62x39s.

i have assembled a few 7.62x39s. once ya know the tricks the 7.62x39 ain't hard at all to make shoot proper.

BEFORE a big expensive barrel or other expensive part check all the little things with a fine toothed comb!

check the basic AR-15 things like the BCG for binds, broken rings , the gas key, clogged gas-port/line and so on FIRST.

it may well be a basic AR problem making all the grief.

if the lower works fine and the ammo is OK then it HAS to be in the S&W assembly somewhere.

i have a LMT that had been firing a lot of steel cased ammo and it got a bit soft on the cycling. checked everything , fired it some and the same problem --repeat and rinse over and over --LOL

after several gray-hairs i yanked the front sight post and checked the barrel port --it was partially clogged by some steel that came off the neck of a wolf case.
 
#14 ·
I hope I never see that POS again but if i do i will go over it with a fine tooth comb. I hope they replace it/fix it etc so this thread can end on a semi positive note. The service and customer service depts failures and poor communication will echo for a long time in my mind and future purchase decisions. When i first dealt with the rep I told him the measure of a buisness is not whether a problem occurs but how it is handled when it does. This one has not been handled well.
 
#15 ·
Not to hijack thread but a few months ago I bought a Walther SP-22 from CDNN on close-out. I also bought a Walther pistol scope. Thought it would be cheaper to practice with than my .45 race gun. Anyway it wouldn't load after a couple of mags. Clean it and good for 20 rnds or so. I called Smith-Wesson who do Walthers work in the states. Talked to a real nice guy-I didn't have to be a Eddie Haskell with him-and he e-mailed a return shipping label to get it fixed. A couple weeks later I got a call and they said they couldn't fix it! Thet sent me a new P-22 and also took of the sights and sent me back the mags that were with the old pistol! Also paid my local gun shop for the transfer fee!! Now I need to find an old SP-22 to put the scope on or the fiber optics on. Or sell them. Any way they did me GREAT. Bill
 
#16 ·
It's good to hear there are good people in springfield mass, I always felt more comfortable with a large established company. I still hold hope for a positive resolution....but I'm not holding my breath. i can't quite fathom blaming a customer's lower for an issue with thier upper. seems like pass the buck to me. will post video and pics if they send the upper back unresolved.
 
#18 ·
Not that it is any help or consolation for your problem, but I purchased a S&W 5.45 upper three years ago. Probably 1,000 rounds down range. Never a stumble at all.
I shoot Bulgarian milsurp exclusively.
I put it on a standard DPMS lower and never even bothered with the heavy hammer spring as mine worked 100% out of the box. C-Products mags and all good.
Hope your problem resolves.
 
#20 ·
Well the customer disservice continues......I recieved a call from the customer service supervisor Kay ( or kate not sure she was eating while talking ) today. She stated there is nothing wrong with the upper they test fired it fuctioned flawlessly then snarkily stated it's made to fire only sammi approved ammo.She then snidely stated i should've sent the whole rifle. i tried to explain i wasn't given that option but she just kept talking and blaming my lower and defending the work in thier service dept. I must say she's good i amost started doubting my own experience with it. This experience has so soured me on the entire smith and wesson line and structure. so i tried to ask her if they had checked the headspace and she said of course they did....i told her to send it back at this point i didn't trust the service dept after not reading the letter and addressing a failure to feed issue when it was sent in for failure to fire. I will have a set of go nogo guages at the ready when it arrives and will video the headspacing and test firing if safe to do so and post it here. Will keep you all up to date as things continue to develop.
 
#21 ·
We'll 545X39 is not rated to meet SAMMI specs.. it is Russian.. Sounds like.. you need to just ask for a refund.. and see how that pans out.. but your problem is the first I've read about a S&W 545 upper having problems.. I know the one I have (I built, not a S&W) with a centurian barrel.. will close on a no go gauge.. it will still run.. I have had some problems with wolf ammo being out of spec..it will stick in the chamber..after it is chambered and not fired. so that's another issue... but I'm going to test accuracy and if it is bad I'll have it replaced.. B2B
 
#23 · (Edited)
Judging from my conversation with the customer service supervisor they are taking a not our problem: it's your ammo, your lower,you should've sent the whole gun, pass the buck stance on this. If they want to play it's saami ammo or not they then must chamber to saami specs. if the bolt closes on a saami nogo it is out of spec. and according to saami unsafe. It's just sad that a mogul of the firearms industry is so quick to blame the customer and pass the buck. No good can come of this but to torque off a customer!
 
#25 ·
she is probably just works there answering calls, she could just work for a service that is answering the calls for S&W.

she probably has an answer sheet for any questions. your lucky the call didn't get routed to a service out sourced to Pakistan !!

it is the holidays --probably their regular gun folks are on holiday--
 
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