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Thread: EP armory Raided by atf

  1. #11
    GuncoHolic Sprat's Avatar
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    sean is john in gaelic, in irish america john's are jack,

    jews who want people to like them ( considered non jewsh) call themselves Jack
    Sprat and sprat1 are one and the same.

  2. #12
    GuncoHolic Sprat's Avatar
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    http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-...r-illegal-guns

    March 10, 2014
    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives raided EP Armory, in Bakersfield, California Friday, along with owner Chris Cook's home. Details at this point are still very thin, but Cook says that agents indicated that they are looking for "illegal guns." From ABC 23 News:

    The ATF was not able to provide information on the on-going investigation. Grahm Barlowe with the ATF declined to comment on why the store was targeted or exactly what agents were looking for.

    Cook said agents told him they were looking for illegal firearms.
    EP Armory is known mostly for its innovative "80% complete" AR-15 receivers. Such receivers, by virtue of still needing some machining in order to serve as the foundation of a firearm, are, legally speaking, just an inert hunk of metal--or in this case, strong (Kevlar-reinforced) polymer. That means they can be legally sold to anyone, without background checks, without the necessity of a serial number, without a requirement for records--almost as if there were a Constitutional amendment stating that by the absolute law of the land, we the people have a right to arms--a right that shall not be infringed.

    One of the innovative features of EP Armory's receivers is that the machining can be done without a drill press or milling machine, or even a jig. By using different color polymers for the portions that are to be milled away, a drill and a Dremel can be all that is needed to convert a hunk of plastic into Congressman Henry Waxman's (D-CA) nightmare (see sidebar video for the process).

    It should be noted that the BATFE arrested no one, and in fact eventually permitted EP Armory to re-open later Friday, although they confiscated Cook's files, laptop, cell phone and iPad. While at this point it is impossible to know what gave them the idea that they might find "illegal guns," one can speculate. Could it be that, by virtue of the ease (and lack of required tooling) of completing the lower receiver, the BATFE has determined that the incomplete lower receivers are more than 80% complete, and are thus to be treated by the law as functional firearms (and thus "illegal" firearms, because the company was not going through the legal hoops required for complete receivers)? Quantifying just what percentage of machining remains to be done, after all, is rather subjective, which gives the agency quite a lot of wiggle room to arbitrarily harass whomever they want.

    And it's not as if the BATFE does not have a history of doing just that with makers of 80% complete receivers. In 2006, the BATFE raided KT Ordnance in Montana, eventually charged the owner, and bizarrely charged one of the inert hunks of metal produced at KT Ordnance, before finally dropping the case (KR has gone on to sell over 10,000 incomplete receivers). To this point, the goings-on at EP Armory are looking alarmingly familiar.

    It is, of course, entirely possible that the BATFE does have a reasonable suspicion that Cook and EP Armory have violated federal gun laws. Since those laws are unconstitutional abominations, that would still not excuse their actions, but one could argue that such a scenario would be somewhat less arbitrarily vindictive tyranny than bringing the power of the federal government to bear against someone whose only "crime" is making the palladium of liberty more easily accessible to more people.

    In the meantime, EP would probably appreciate some business coming their way, and who doesn't need a homemade AR-15?

    Update: National Gun Rights Examiner David Codrea, writing for his War on Guns blog, notes a possible link to this story about an alleged large-scale illegal firearm fabricating operation in California. That is quite possible, but even if true, of course, it is also very possible that EP Armory has done nothing illegal, even if their products were used in the operation.

    and

    http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/03/12/g...1Q2lVmgjBYz.01

    March 10, 2014
    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives raided EP Armory, in Bakersfield, California Friday, along with owner Chris Cook's home. Details at this point are still very thin, but Cook says that agents indicated that they are looking for "illegal guns." From ABC 23 News:

    The ATF was not able to provide information on the on-going investigation. Grahm Barlowe with the ATF declined to comment on why the store was targeted or exactly what agents were looking for.

    Cook said agents told him they were looking for illegal firearms.
    EP Armory is known mostly for its innovative "80% complete" AR-15 receivers. Such receivers, by virtue of still needing some machining in order to serve as the foundation of a firearm, are, legally speaking, just an inert hunk of metal--or in this case, strong (Kevlar-reinforced) polymer. That means they can be legally sold to anyone, without background checks, without the necessity of a serial number, without a requirement for records--almost as if there were a Constitutional amendment stating that by the absolute law of the land, we the people have a right to arms--a right that shall not be infringed.

    One of the innovative features of EP Armory's receivers is that the machining can be done without a drill press or milling machine, or even a jig. By using different color polymers for the portions that are to be milled away, a drill and a Dremel can be all that is needed to convert a hunk of plastic into Congressman Henry Waxman's (D-CA) nightmare (see sidebar video for the process).

    It should be noted that the BATFE arrested no one, and in fact eventually permitted EP Armory to re-open later Friday, although they confiscated Cook's files, laptop, cell phone and iPad. While at this point it is impossible to know what gave them the idea that they might find "illegal guns," one can speculate. Could it be that, by virtue of the ease (and lack of required tooling) of completing the lower receiver, the BATFE has determined that the incomplete lower receivers are more than 80% complete, and are thus to be treated by the law as functional firearms (and thus "illegal" firearms, because the company was not going through the legal hoops required for complete receivers)? Quantifying just what percentage of machining remains to be done, after all, is rather subjective, which gives the agency quite a lot of wiggle room to arbitrarily harass whomever they want.

    And it's not as if the BATFE does not have a history of doing just that with makers of 80% complete receivers. In 2006, the BATFE raided KT Ordnance in Montana, eventually charged the owner, and bizarrely charged one of the inert hunks of metal produced at KT Ordnance, before finally dropping the case (KR has gone on to sell over 10,000 incomplete receivers). To this point, the goings-on at EP Armory are looking alarmingly familiar.

    It is, of course, entirely possible that the BATFE does have a reasonable suspicion that Cook and EP Armory have violated federal gun laws. Since those laws are unconstitutional abominations, that would still not excuse their actions, but one could argue that such a scenario would be somewhat less arbitrarily vindictive tyranny than bringing the power of the federal government to bear against someone whose only "crime" is making the palladium of liberty more easily accessible to more people.

    In the meantime, EP would probably appreciate some business coming their way, and who doesn't need a homemade AR-15?

    Update: National Gun Rights Examiner David Codrea, writing for his War on Guns blog, notes a possible link to this story about an alleged large-scale illegal firearm fabricating operation in California. That is quite possible, but even if true, of course, it is also very possible that EP Armory has done nothing illegal, even if their products were used in the operation.
    Sprat and sprat1 are one and the same.

  3. #13
    GuncoHolic Sprat's Avatar
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    More from EP's facebook page

    FROM their FB:

    Patriots.

    We have as you all know had ATF interaction over the EP80 and the sales thereof. We have been in constant contact with our legal team and have made it extremely apparent that our customers and their privacy are our TOP priority as well as the legality of the sales and manufacturing of our product. Please understand that we are NOT handing any information of any of our customers on an at will basis nor will we. We have had our computers confiscated as I am sure you all have read in the many articles posted all over the internet. We did NOT at any time give them a customer list.

    We were served with a search warrant that did not specifically request any of our customers information. We take multiple steps to safeguard your privacy. Therefore we did not give access to any such documents/records/information. Our distributor ARES, located in Oceanside, had a demand in their search warrant for a customer list and was able to apply a TRO (Temporary Restraining Order) in defense. Ares was alerted, and at an advantage due to our circumstances, which was not given to us. Ares and E P Armory are firm believers in our rights as Americans and ensure to uphold them.

    Going forward:

    Currently all sales and manufacturing of the EP80 have been put on hold until the BATFE can revisit the most recent determination which was on an understanding that the EP80 was manufactured in a way that would not comply with federal GCA (GUN CONTROL ACT) law. We have already previously resent and replied explaining the manufacturing process with no feedback other than a large group of agents entering the premises and confiscating our product and our means to manufacture it, until given further notice.

    We feel very confident that litigation from our attorneys will remove the misconception released by the BATFE and will in turn release E P Armory from any charges that could lay ourselves in a criminal court from this.

    E P Armory, and all of our employees thank each and every one of our customers and future customers of the support we have received over this whole ordeal.

    - Chris Cook
    Owner CEO
    Sprat and sprat1 are one and the same.

  4. #14
    3/6 Infantry mtdew's Avatar
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    That sh*t pisses me right the f*ck off. Right -the- f*ck -off. They are sh*tting on the Constitution. I'm gonna finish the one I have left just to spite those jerk water basturds.
    "NA BEAN DON CHAT GUN LAMHAINN"
    Clan MacPherson
    "CREAG DHUBH"!

  5. #15
    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    They make the rules as they go.. I had an argument with a hot ATF chick about weapons in vehicles down here.
    If you can legally own a weapon in Florida. They have what is "unofficially" called a "Two Step Law." Weapon in the vehicle would need two steps to put in use. In the glove compartment, in a holster snapped closure and not in the open. Etc.
    We argued and it turned out she checked and I was correct.. Nice lady she called and said I was correct..
    Think I will buy a bunch of 80% receivers now.. Don't know how to make em, just want to buy em. F$%K them, legal is legal..
    "O.K., I am coming out with my hands up. Like don't shoot dudes. My old lady is in the house, she is armed too the teeth."
    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


  6. #16
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    never hurts to have a few spares. hot air from washington DC is all ways blowing my paperwork in the breeze so PAPERWEIGHTS are a necessity!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by 4thIDvet View Post
    They make the rules as they go.. I had an argument with a hot ATF chick about weapons in vehicles down here.
    If you can legally own a weapon in Florida. They have what is "unofficially" called a "Two Step Law." Weapon in the vehicle would need two steps to put in use. In the glove compartment, in a holster snapped closure and not in the open. Etc.
    We argued and it turned out she checked and I was correct.. Nice lady she called and said I was correct..
    Think I will buy a bunch of 80% receivers now.. Don't know how to make em, just want to buy em. F$%K them, legal is legal..
    "O.K., I am coming out with my hands up. Like don't shoot dudes. My old lady is in the house, she is armed too the teeth."

  7. #17
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    never hurts to have a few spares. hot air from washington DC is all ways blowing my paperwork in the breeze so PAPERWEIGHTS are a necessity!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by 4thIDvet View Post
    They make the rules as they go.. I had an argument with a hot ATF chick about weapons in vehicles down here.
    If you can legally own a weapon in Florida. They have what is "unofficially" called a "Two Step Law." Weapon in the vehicle would need two steps to put in use. In the glove compartment, in a holster snapped closure and not in the open. Etc.
    We argued and it turned out she checked and I was correct.. Nice lady she called and said I was correct..
    Think I will buy a bunch of 80% receivers now.. Don't know how to make em, just want to buy em. F$%K them, legal is legal..
    "O.K., I am coming out with my hands up. Like don't shoot dudes. My old lady is in the house, she is armed too the teeth."

  8. #18
    aka: SDK1968 dutigaf's Avatar
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    wow that one triple posted. LMAO

    ive done several of their lowers... even did a head to head of them here on this site...

    they are easy to do and ok to use..

    they just arent as good as some of the other brands that are out there.

    doesnt mean they are violating the law.. & they have an approval letter. so this whole things is bullshit to see if the goobs can get away with it.
    say what you mean & mean what you say


  9. #19
    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dutigaf View Post
    wow that one triple posted. LMAO

    ive done several of their lowers... even did a head to head of them here on this site...

    they are easy to do and ok to use..

    they just arent as good as some of the other brands that are out there.

    doesnt mean they are violating the law.. & they have an approval letter. so this whole things is bullshit to see if the goobs can get away with it.
    Yes dutigaf. This is going viral on all the forums.. ATF lied.. Yupper and in doing so, they pissed off a Judge. Uh not good..
    They raided on the "assumption" people were doing illegal things with the 80% receivers.. Whoops can't do dat.
    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


  10. #20
    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
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    They raided on the "assumption" people were doing illegal things with the 80% receivers..
    But that's not the manufacturers problem if they follow the law and the end user doesn't, the end user is the only criminal if they make something illegal.


    Just like mtdew & 4th said "They are sh*tting on the Constitution" & "They make the rules as they go.."
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

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