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Thread: M4 Carbine

  1. #11
    GuncoHolic twa2471's Avatar
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    Hell no Brother,,,I humped a 60 in Nam.

    I'm second from the left on the top row getting ready to hit the A Shau Valley.
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    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    we had the up close " house to house er mud hut to mud hut--" too.

    308 could do it all but it is soo heavy -- try lugging 500 rounds of 7.62x51 up some mountain in afgainstan along with all your other gear.

    5.56 is a might small , 7.62x39 is a bit "slow" and 7.62x51 is a bit "big" to carry around in bulk.

    i think that is what the word "assault rifle" has come to mean - some kind of compromise.

    the DOD ain't much interested in a new round. it thinks the 5.56 is cheap and thats what were going to run. end of story.

    the m16a2s with the knight kit on them and a ACOG can hit way out there and the same goes for SAW type machine guns.

    5.56 hitting things like bomb laden trucks can have problems getting through the sheet metal of a hard old truck at range.

    you don't want to be close at all to one of these. we stuck m240s out there whenever we had um--the bad news is there are never enough of them or their ammo to go around.
    so lots of boots end up pulling point defense with the old 5.56 saw or a couple m16s.

    of course a 50 m2 would be better-- like everything else we just didn't have enough of them either.

    a lot of the war is supply and demand. you have to fight with what you got or can get.

    sometimes we would set up tangos/al-quaidas LMGs when we were lucky enough to have some fall into our hands that were still good.

  3. #13
    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    .308 is to heavy twa. Hell at my age now, I would be lucky to carry a sling shot and some marbles. Never fired a 60, hell don't think I ever even picked one up. Hell did not even like being near them, always thought of them as well, like a target.
    Round has to be light for more ammo carrying ability. Russia went with the lighter round that if you mix it up in a batch of AR ammo, your face becomes one with the receiver.
    "Man WTF happened to your face their fella? You get hit with a semi or somthin?"
    Interesting from the link in this thread the guys on the front were talking about the sand and the problems they were having. But hell the guys back in the rear don't want to hear what they are sayin.
    Cleaning was mentioned a number of times to keep the AR functioning. Well hell all well and good, now sit on a hill in Afghanistan with God knows what out their. Last thing these young fellers can do is break that weapon down. "Hold on don't shoot, I am cleaning my weapon time out." Good luck with that.
    So what is the perfect caliber?? If not perfect, a better one??
    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


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    GuncoHolic twa2471's Avatar
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    The 60 did kinda make you,, the target,4th , but it sure gave me a warm fuzzy feeling hunkering down behind it and laying down a field of fire that would keep a freight train at bay!! You know honestly when the shit hits the fan ,,you didn't really notice the weight of the rounds at all. I carried 1200 rnds + with a belt in, with my assistant gunner, Boots, hauling as much as he could possibly carry and still be able to stay mobile. The AR's though light and your able to carry lots of ammo, just didn't cut it for me. I saw first hand how a AR round wouldn't go through a tree to get at tango on the other side,, and the 60 would. Plus all my boys were hunters besides and just knew how to be sparing on ammo. Some outfits just shot to keep there heads down,,,WTF good does that do? My squads method was to shoot very little and we got them to expose themselves more often , that way so we could pick them off when they popped up to see where we were at. It took me a bit to get these guys to realize how effective that was ,, but once they got it,, we had the highest KIA of anybody else in the company, and the lowest losses for us. In the 6 months I had the squad only 2 of us got hit and we both ended up back in the field or reassigned. Boots ended up back in the field and I got reassigned to truck driver duty. Not a bad record.

    Other than being a sand pit there wasn't much difference between the topography of the mountains of the middle East and Nam,,they are all to frigging steep when your humping 100+ lbs!!! Some of the recommended bs they wanted you to carry in Nam was ridiculous and mostly useless to us IMO. I paired out everything from my ruck that could go and replaced it with anything that would go bang or boom. Some new guys would haul around more extemporaneous shit and I'd spent half my time pairing down there rucks too when I took over the squad. Ya they'd bitch like banshee's when we went out and they didn't happen to have some luxury item in the field, but when it got hot,,,,

    there wasn't one single complaint about having that extra ammo that took the place of those luxury's. I had my personal items counting the ruck it's self paired down to just over 14 lbs, and that would hold me over for 2 weeks, food included, we used LERPS(dehydrated food). Food, a hammock, tooth brush, para cord, tp, extra socks and a few other miscellaneous necessity items is all I carried, everything else was ammo or something that would blow shit up.

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    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    Oh you guys had the LRRP rations huh. Spoiled Brats.
    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


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    GuncoHolic twa2471's Avatar
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    Yup,4 th,compered to C's,,they were heaven!!!

    But we mostly did recon and ambush's so we kinda needed them for the amount of time we were out for,, 2 weeks at a time with no resupply was pretty much the normal for us. Sometimes longer if we were on the Ho Chi Min, then we humped in and out instead of going there on the choppers, they'd get us 3-4 clicks away , but that's just about as far as they'd go in, the rest was up to us. We worked allot with the Rangers too, so we had access to pretty much what they had at the time.

    Most of the other troops during that time got C-rations in the field though. Yuck!!! I guess being "out front " had it's advantages. Even if you did get shot at more often.

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    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    yea the 5.56 ain't much for busting through cover --even light cover at range can be more than it can handle.

    the 77gr bullets helped "some" --but it is still way behind the 7.62x51.


    i suppose the DOD could have supplemented our formations with a few more 30 cal weapons --

    a few BAR type weapons in 7.62x51 taking the place of the saws would have been much welcome even if they weighed more.

    i don't know how the guys humping um up those long hills would have took to um though--LOL

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    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twa2471 View Post
    Yup,4 th,compered to C's,,they were heaven!!!

    But we mostly did recon and ambush's so we kinda needed them for the amount of time we were out for,, 2 weeks at a time with no resupply was pretty much the normal for us. Sometimes longer if we were on the Ho Chi Min, then we humped in and out instead of going there on the choppers, they'd get us 3-4 clicks away , but that's just about as far as they'd go in, the rest was up to us. We worked allot with the Rangers too, so we had access to pretty much what they had at the time.

    Most of the other troops during that time got C-rations in the field though. Yuck!!! I guess being "out front " had it's advantages. Even if you did get shot at more often.
    Now yah know dang blasted well I am teasing yah. Hell just because yall were LRRPS they gave yah LRRP rations, Geez.

    Quote Originally Posted by j427x View Post
    yea the 5.56 ain't much for busting through cover --even light cover at range can be more than it can handle.

    the 77gr bullets helped "some" --but it is still way behind the 7.62x51.

    What would you want j4, nobody else seems to want to say? I would like to see paint guns. Hell you shoot at each other, go home dog your out of the game. O.K. o.k. no need to get violent dude, like calm down.
    Finally figured out this multi quote thing after 5 years. So I did not go to college o.k.

    i suppose the DOD could have supplemented our formations with a few more 30 cal weapons --

    a few BAR type weapons in 7.62x51 taking the place of the saws would have been much welcome even if they weighed more.

    i don't know how the guys humping um up those long hills would have took to um though--LOL
    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


  9. #19
    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twa2471 View Post
    Yup,4 th,compered to C's,,they were heaven!!!

    But we mostly did recon and ambush's so we kinda needed them for the amount of time we were out for,, 2 weeks at a time with no resupply was pretty much the normal for us. Sometimes longer if we were on the Ho Chi Min, then we humped in and out instead of going there on the choppers, they'd get us 3-4 clicks away , but that's just about as far as they'd go in, the rest was up to us. We worked allot with the Rangers too, so we had access to pretty much what they had at the time.

    Most of the other troops during that time got C-rations in the field though. Yuck!!! I guess being "out front " had it's advantages. Even if you did get shot at more often.
    Now yah know dang blasted well I am teasing yah. Hell just because yall were LRRPS they gave yah LRRP rations, Geez.

    Quote Originally Posted by j427x View Post
    yea the 5.56 ain't much for busting through cover --even light cover at range can be more than it can handle.

    the 77gr bullets helped "some" --but it is still way behind the 7.62x51.


    i suppose the DOD could have supplemented our formations with a few more 30 cal weapons --

    a few BAR type weapons in 7.62x51 taking the place of the saws would have been much welcome even if they weighed more.

    i don't know how the guys humping um up those long hills would have took to um though--LOL
    What would you want j4, nobody else seems to want to say? I would like to see paint guns. Hell you shoot at each other, go home dog your out of the game. O.K. o.k. no need to get violent dude, like calm down.
    Finally figured out this multi quote thing after 5 years. So I did not go to college o.k.

    Double tap, my fault. Maybe I did not figure this damn thing out. Sniper where the frig are you son??
    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


  10. #20
    Gunco Veteran stalker1's Avatar
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    Yeah really sniper. Where you at? Everybody on vacation ?LOL wife and I are.I had almost forgotten what the honey do list was.

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