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Fal not feeding right

7K views 32 replies 6 participants last post by  iansstud 
#1 ·
I have a FAL its a Enterprise Type 3 upper, (NON-unaramp) Dont make fun!!!

It has run great for about 4 20rd mags now, I WAS very happy with this gun!!! and yesterday, It was as if it was not getting enough gas... I even turned the gas up, down, all the way to 1!!! and then to 7, with NO changes!!!

It would go 80% back, almost to enough to catch the next round, but not quite, it would then ride over the round, jamming it in the feedramp, and bolt. I would then manually cycle the rifle back, then let it go forward, but it would double feed!!!

Im not happy about this!!! Im using American Eagle 168 OTM (m1a) ammo.

Do you think its because it dirty? I havent cleaned it now for about 20 rounds, then I pulled it out yesterday, and it did this shit to me!!!



ALSO... Whats the best ammo for the FAL? and Where do I get it at the best price?

I have 12 empty mags and need some 7.62nato ammo...
 
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#2 ·
In a moment of stupidity I sold my imbel fal a few years back. Double check that your gas system is ok. gas port unblocked, piston head not chewed up, piston tube secure, gas adjustment ring properly installed, and gas plug set to fire and not closed. If that all checks out ok, then I'd pull the recoil spring and see if it is all covered in dried cosmoline like mine was. Unless you're shooting black powder rounds through your fal, 20 rounds shouldn't make it dirty enough to cause stoppages.
 
#4 ·
Is the mag holding the rounds high enough? I think you're describing bolt over base jams. Too short of a mag catch will cause this. Ggiiillliiieee on FALfiles has a good method of improving feeding on FALs. You open up the opening in the lower rails to the same profile as the magazine feed lips.
GGIILLIIEE'S RAIL WIDENING FOR BETTER FAL FEEDING
He can't type coherently, but he seems to know his machines plenty well.
 
#6 ·
Ok, I cleaned the gaspiston, Just a little carbon, nothing out of the norm... I took the Front sight post out, and looked down the gashole, looked good. Cleaned the gas tube and all the parts. everything looked good...

And the gas selector was set to A> not Gr< It would cycle every 5th or 6th shot then there would be 5 or 6 jams in a row.

I will try the dremel/ magazine Ghiillee trick next weekend.
 
#7 ·
Any oil on it? Not enough oil might make it bind enough, or on the other end of the spectrum are you using grease or something thick like that? That'd cause the issue too. If the mags sit nice and high and the bolt engages the rims of the rounds with enough material then you might not help to do the aforementioned trick, though all it can do is help if you do it right so I'd do it anyways.
 
#8 ·
Grinding on my rifle would be a last step for me. The gun was working correctly and now it isn't. Unless the receiver grew thats not at the top of the list. If the rifle won't pick up a round when you work the action by hand I might look at the mag height though. Try different mags, different ammo (even though the fal gas system is adjustable and forgiving), close the gas vent so that all of the gas is going to the piston, clean out the recoil spring and plunger for starters. You can also put a piece of tape on the bolt carrier at the same distance to where the bolt has to come back to pick up a round. The tape should stick up so that if the bolt gets back that far it will get knocked off or deformed by the dust cover. If the tape is getting deformed then the bolt/carrier is comming back far enough to pick up a new round. Then I would look at the mags.
A bolt over base jam is common and is most likely caused by not enough gas or bad mags. I have had bolt over base malfunctions on my fal, m1 garands, m1a's, ar15's ect at one time or another. They have mostly been gas related (or cosmo'ed up recoil system) or bad mags. My fal started malfunctioning like yours and it was the gritty, greasy crud in the recoil spring tube that was to blame.
 
#9 ·
I always clean everything, I add 2 drops of light oil to each rail, an 1 drop to any contacting surface.

I have never taken the recoil spring out! I will try tomorrow!!! It was always on really really tight!!! I will need to buy a bigger screwdriver!
 
#10 ·
When you take it out, look out. There was a pic going around of a guy with a greasy spring print on his forehead from that exact process. The special tool is worth the extra $20 IMO.

I remember hearing of people having trouble with oil in the recoil spring tube working like a hydraulic buffer, reducing the travel enough for it to not work too good. I was gonna post about that but I dunno why I didn't... Anyways, my vote goes toward what moleman said.
 
#11 ·
When you take it out, look out. There was a pic going around of a guy with a greasy spring print on his forehead from that exact process.

:lolup: [486] brings up a good point. I never bought the tool, but I made my own version of it after removing the retaining nut with just a screw driver and having it fly across the room. I welded a flatplate to the end of a bolt to act as a screwdriver blade, cut a notch into the center of the plate for a section of sectioned cleaning rod to go through the retainer bolt and stick up a little bit. The correct tool has the rod connected to the tool to make removal safer but its getting that long spring back inside the recoil tube thats the tricky part. The rod holds the spring straight and makes it a snap to get together. Wear some safety goggles and don't take one out around some new wine glasses your wife just bought like I did.
 
#14 ·
OK...

The Buffer tube is now cleaned!!! It was a little greasy, but I dont think this was the issue...

I cycle it with NO magazine, and it binds alittle about half way through cycle each way. So I removed the dust cover and cycled it. same issue, then I put the cover back on, and cycled it with the action broke open (no recoil spring) the binding went away, It was very smooth. So the Issue I belive is the Recoil Spring/Buffer tube area. It is all cleaned up and still does this!!! It even binds if I shove a rod down the tube!!!!

Im not sure what to do next, Maybe replace the tube, springs and, recoil 'piston'???
 
#15 ·
ALSO!!!

I found a Great way to re-install the buffertube spring!!!

I use a walmart cleaning kit rod the cheapo ones with the plastic handle. I put the nut on the cleaning rod, then insert the rod down the spring, and push untill it contacts the tube. I can spin the whole thing untill it catches, or use my fingers to start it.

Works great!!! And I can take it off 90% with the screw driver and then incert the cleaning rod and do the rest by hand. No springs to fly out, no mess, no trouble at all!!! I think the kit was $8.99 at walmart and comes with all the cleaning stuff too!! Ive had it for 3 years now and keep comeing up with uses!!!
 
#29 ·
Cool tip!

Thinking about your problem, I remembered that I had a similar issue that was caused by the "rat-tail" retaining pin was really worn. Over time, the rat tail began to deform and then outright bend during firing. Took days to figure it out.

Also, check that the locking shoulder is correctly sized for your bolt. I ran into that problem once with an Entreprise rec.
 
#16 ·
Might even have dents in the buffer tube. But, definitely a problem in the tube from this bit of info.
It even binds if I shove a rod down the tube!!!!
Pull it apart and look at it, the tube can be damn near impossible to replace on some rifles, so you might wanna get a new lower if the tube doesn't come out, or convert to paratrooper recoil/stock if you've been thinking of doing it, now would be a great time.
 
#17 ·
OK, so I Re-pulled the springs, nut, stock and Tube, It screwed right out! I checked it by looking down it and spinning it on the table, looks great, no dings dents or anything!!! I Re cleaned it, put 2 drops of Light oil on the spring, I reinstalled the tube, stock, spring and nut.

And it keeps binding!!!! it will still cycle a little easyer if I do it fast, but it will almost hang up at 2 places when I do it slow. It hangs up so bad it almost would stop on its own if I let go. I re checked the bolt carrier with the action open (no spring) and it glides great, no hang ups! So it must be the spring! The spring feels like the pressure changes at about 3-4 points along the entire travel of the springs.
 
#20 ·
Not binding against the hammer, No dings dents or marks on the tube or rat tail. I will post pics today. I'm stumped! Without the spring and plunger everything runs great!!! No binding! But with the recoil system installed, and no bolt carrier, the plunger binds even when I use a cleaning rod to compress it!

Just to make sure, there are 2 springs in the tube, right?


I think I will pollish the plunger and the recoil system hole in the receiver.
 
#21 ·
See if the spring follower plunger has any unusual wear marks on it as well as the end of the spring that rests on it. The spring may be trying to push by the side of the plunger if its undersided enough. I've seen that happen with shotgun mag tube plugs. If you take just the plunger and drop it down the tube does it make it all the way to the bottem, or does it get hung up? I'd also try seeing how the binding is with the hammer removed just to rule that out.

Its been a number of years since I've taken the recoil spring out. If I remember correctly there is an right and a left hand spring one inside the other for the recoil spring. the different directions they are wound keeps them from binding up.
 
#22 ·
Ok, I took it apart again! I dropped the plunger down the tube, no issues there, I polished the plunger and it is now smooth!

I cycled the bolt carrier with the tube removed, and it does rub a little on the hammer about 30% of my issues, but I belive this is normal... The other 70% is still the spring. and it does it when I push the plunger down (springs and everything installed) with a rod to simulate the rattail cycling...

Here are some pics:


Walmart FAL recoil spring tool:



I unscrew the nut until its even with the stock then unscrew by hand:


Complete control:

Befor:

After:


I reinstalled everything, and I think the polishing helped! so I polished the hammer, and bolt surfaces. It feels ALOT better now!!!
 
#23 ·
The next thing I was gonna ask was if the springs were wound in opposing directions, because if they were the same twist then they'd stack up and bind, but your picture eliminated that possibility pretty well.

Maybe you're feeling the spring aligning with whatever rod centers it. That would explain a bit of variation, like when you pull the bolt back on a stamped AK, look at the spring, it wiggles around on the retainer thing, and you can feel it on the charging handle.
 
#24 ·
After cleaning it now about 6 times and putting it back together, I thought I would do a Feed test, and "ride" the bolt closed...


Here is what I think the issue is...


1st 20 rounds of ammo ran fine, they must have been barely feeding, this got things a tiny bit dirty enough to cause a little more resistance. When I used the OTM tips again, because they were barely feeding before, this time they were not.


The real issue here is the feed ramps, they are polished however they ARE a 2 stage ramp, and the Damn OTM tips of the eagle ammo I was using was catching the little hollow point on the 2nd ramp or chamber area. This caused the spring to have to push more to get it to feed causing the round to drop deeper in to the magazine causing the bolt to ride over the round and JAM.

Here is what I mean:





The only fix I can see is to file using my dremel the 2nd part of the ramp so it alligns with the 1st part of the ramp like so...
 
#25 ·
Removing material there might cause case web failures. You could increase the angle like they did with M4 feed ramps in ARs, but I would first see if extra power mag springs would solve it.

Removing a tiny bit of material from anywhere the case touches the lower rail on feeding might help too, like right by the case shoulder in the pics. Then the rounds will pop up easier, not hit the feed ramp [more like a bevel] on the barrel as much. I think your feedramps might be a bit low, as in my limited experience [I've only messed with imbel receivers] the bullet tip will be 1/16" above the bottom edge of the chamber on feeding.
 
#26 ·
Removing material there might cause case web failures. You could increase the angle like they did with M4 feed ramps in ARs, but I would first see if extra power mag springs would solve it.

Removing a tiny bit of material from anywhere the case touches the lower rail on feeding might help too, like right by the case shoulder in the pics. Then the rounds will pop up easier, not hit the feed ramp [more like a bevel] on the barrel as much. I think your feedramps might be a bit low, as in my limited experience [I've only messed with imbel receivers] the bullet tip will be 1/16" above the bottom edge of the chamber on feeding.
As I recall I had to do this on mine^. If you have to you can break the corner on the feed ramp on the chamber right in front of the bullet nose in your pic. Just dont get into the chamber itself. Just round the lower edge. These and other military guns sometimes have trouble feeding hollow points. This will often cure it.
 
#32 ·
Yes,that is correct! I have had guns that rammed the bullet nose so hard that the bullet was pushed back into the case. Always w/ hollow points, never w/ FMJ. Sometimes its only a few thousanths keeping it from working, so do a little at a time,check it, do somemore till it works.
 
#33 ·
Im working on my AK grips this weekend, if I get that done, and the list of honey do's then maybe, just maybe I can work on this!!!

I will take your advise and do a little at a time... I need to find some cheap surplus ammo for CHEAP!!! Im getting low on ammo as it is, and I may just use this OTM (Hollow point) ammo in my Rem700 and see how it shoots, its only about 50 rounds left.
 
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