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Thread: Saiga - SLG-10/AK-103/Arsenal

  1. #1
    Gunco Rookie thrutraffic's Avatar
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    Default Saiga - SLG-10/AK-103/Arsenal

    Ok folks, I need some help. I'm trying to understand what just happened with a purchase of an SLG-10 (from AK-103.com).

    Note: I am posting this same question to some other forums with the intent of getting a variety of responses. Sorry if you run into it elsewhere.

    - Started shopping in October 2008 for my first AK
    - Read a ton of information from several web sites
    - A local dealer recommended Arsenal
    - Researched Arsenal and decided on an SLR-107FR
    - Went shopping
    - While shopping I ran across numerous forum posts about problems with Arsenal's rifles and customer service
    - Noted in most of these posts that going with a build from Chris Butler at AK-103 was a better bet
    - Forums turned me off about Arsenal
    - Talked to Chris Butler and ordered one of his AK-103s (October)
    - 8 weeks passed
    - Yesterday (12/17) my FFL calls, rifle arrived
    - Began to loving inspect my new weapon and lo and behold it's stamped Arsenal
    - I dig through the box for manual - SGL-10 from Arsenal
    - Find a tag on the box - SGL-10 from Arsenal
    - Go to Arsenal's Wedb site, identical weapon
    - EMail Chris - response is I don't really know what I'm looking at, doesn't deny it's an Arsenal SLG-10

    So what just happened???

    My basic feel is I did NOT want an Arsenal rifle so I believed I was purchasing a custom Chris Butler rifle from AK-103.

    On top of this I paid AK-103 $1028.00 for this weapon. I don't have a problem with that for a custom build but I see on the forums prices noted of $600 to $700 and on one gun auction site today there is an SLG-10 NIB with a buy it now price of $700 and another for $750 and another for $715 and another for $799. I would have paid these sums for an Arsenal weapon if I'd wanted an Arsenal but I wouldn't have paid what I paid FOR an Arsenal.

    So: Should I just live with this or should I start raising holy hell over it by demanding a refund?

    What say ye?

  2. #2
    Cuerno de Chivo chipmechanic's Avatar
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    The SGL-10 is just a Saiga with a different front end treatment at Arsenal USA. The buttstock is still the same hunting rifle type. Did yours have the pistol grip and stock conversion? If so then it would have been done where you got it. If its got the pistol grip and regular buttstock then your guy probably bought a SGL-10 which is actually a Saiga with a AK front end put together at Arseneal. Thats the hard part. Then he added a pistol grip and trigger guard with a normal FCG . Theres different ways to do that. You can weld up the old trigger group holes and refinish the gun or you can use those little rubber plugs which look cheap but are functional.

    Nothing wrong with the Arsenal stuff. The way you got it is sort of roundabout but $1000 for a AK-103 isn't outrageous. Theres better ways to do it but parts are strating to dry up and all.



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    Hooligan upgrayedd's Avatar
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    No one can stop you from raising hell with this guy, but it sounds like he might have pulled a fast one on you and not sure if you will be successful in this endeavor.
    What does his sales reciept say? Did you put it on the credit card? Perhaps you can suggest to him that you will be disputing the charge on the credit card unless he makes good on the original weapon...offer him the opportunity to make this right, right away.
    I'm also sure that you could call your local branch of the BATFE and ask them what recourse you have in this situation?
    Perhaps lodge a formal complaint if nothing else?
    Do you have emails in which you and he specifically agree upon the AK-103?

    just thinking out loud

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    rbthntr64's Avatar
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    If you paid with a credit card, contest the charge and send it back. If your card was a MasterCard, they will do a chargeback if it was not what you ordered, ala` bait and switch.
    Freedom is not free. Some will perish to preserve it for the many. Just as our Forefathers did before us, we must take up the battle and not waver. Victory is our only option.

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    Cuerno de Chivo chipmechanic's Avatar
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    Once again ...If it has a pistol grip and buttstock then you got an AK-103 which is wat you paid for. If it has the standard Saiga buttstock then you got a SGL-10. The $700 price you are seeing is for regualr hunting stock grip SGL-10's . If he started with an SGL 10 and added a buttstock and pistol grip conversion I honestly don't see where the foul was. Arsenal doesnt build Saiga's. They just sell them with regular AK front ends. Its still a dolled up Saiga. All AK's are dolled up in one fashion or another.



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    Hooligan upgrayedd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipmechanic View Post
    Once again ...If it has a pistol grip and buttstock then you got an AK-103 which is wat you paid for. If it has the standard Saiga buttstock then you got a SGL-10. The $700 price you are seeing is for regualr hunting stock grip SGL-10's . If he started with an SGL 10 and added a buttstock and pistol grip conversion I honestly don't see where the foul was. Arsenal doesnt build Saiga's. They just sell them with regular AK front ends. Its still a dolled up Saiga. All AK's are dolled up in one fashion or another.
    See-Chip here filled me in on what I DIDNT know.

    Thanks.

    It sounds to me like this is on the up and up. Chris seems to be a reputable dude and haven't really heard anything against his character or his business?

    have fun with it!!!!

  7. #7
    Gunco Rookie thrutraffic's Avatar
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    Default Thanks much folks

    Well it's definitely not an unmodified hunting rifle. I didn't think that. Generally I thought I was ordering a rifle bought and customized by a specific individual whereas I received it and it looks just like every SLG-10 and is even marked everywhere that it's an Arsenal product.

    Won't be the first/last time I missunderstood something. :-)

    This is what I'm looking for.

    I don't want to rush off in a haste.

    Thanks for the reasoned thoughts. :-)

  8. #8
    Hooligan upgrayedd's Avatar
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    Thrutraffic, I would at least call Chris and voice your concerns to him, he might get a chuckle out of it and explain it to you better than we could?
    There is NOTHING wrong with calling a vendor and asking them to explain to them that you did nto receive what you THOUGHT you had paid for, especially via an internet transaction.

    ..its' at least worth a call

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    Cuerno de Chivo chipmechanic's Avatar
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    To be honest a converted Saiga like you have is going to be closer to a real AK-103 than anything else that someone with a cobbled together parts kit is going to build you. Its still a Russian AK and the only way to get that russian receiver and barrel is to use a Saiga.

    As far as the time frame goes its CRAZY time in the gun and gun parts world. Your'e lucky you got it that fast!



  10. #10
    Gunco Rookie xcibes's Avatar
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    Sir,

    You got exactly what you paid for....and a fine rifle it is. A convereted SGL-10 Saiga rifle made in Russia, but imported by Arsenal. Arsenal did not make your rifle they only imported them. You got a good price for the work that was done. You now have a customized rifle built by one of the finest ak builders in the world. These rifles are better than the SLR107, and you can bae assured it was built right. Chris Butler stands by his work and you should not have any problems with it. One more thing, these rifles are no longer being imported by Arsenal due to some issues with RAA and pending litigaion I believe so there are no more SGL10 coming in. RAA may import a similar rifle but there is nothing firm on that yet. I do not know where you heard about Chris Butler's Ak-103 builds with these rifles but I had posted about it in theakforum.net with pictures of what the actual rifle would look like. Given that Ak-USA is a small operation you got your rifle in a very timely manner. Other custom shops take many months and even years.

    Here is the thread I started on the other forum:

    The AK Forum :: Log in

    Below is what you should have gotten. If this is it then you are good to go and you should be very happy about your rifle


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