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New machined Adapter for .223

69K views 348 replies 65 participants last post by  Warwickben 
#1 ·
Here's what the machined adapter looks like. It fits most stamped AK platforms.







 
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#132 ·
The adapter is literally a "Snap it in" procedure. Just as if it was a Saiga Magazine. There will be instructions. There's 2 things that basically need to be done. A very small amount of dremel on the back side of the Saiga mag release paddle lever that you push to release the magazine. It doesn't quite seat far enough, so a slight touch with the dremel will let it go further to hold the adapter in place.

The other part, which is definitely a little bit of work with the dremel, is to grind the 2 tabs that are part of the trunnion. If you try right now to put in an AR15 magazine, you'll see that it can really go up all the way. These two tabs stop it. So, you'll need to grind it so the AR magazine can go in deeper. Wait until you get the adapter, so you'll know how much to grind. Once the magazine can go all the way up through the adapter, and CLICK into play like an AR magazine should, you'll be far enough. Hard to judge without the adapter on hand. I did some of the grinding ahead of time. I didn't screw the pooch, but I really wish I had waited. Then I could have done a nicer job.

But Renegadebuck includes really good instruction. later.. mike...
 
#133 ·
Thanks, Mike. I was just curious as the extent of my experience with modding a Saiga thus far, is a P.G. conversion + 922nr parts. Nothing crazy yet. Doesn't sound too bad though. I looked up the MSA one and it looked as easy as a brain transplant (and thus got worried).
 
#134 ·
From my understanding, the MSA one is actually harder than Renegadebuck's, because it requires some other grinding to get the adapter to fit correctly. Renegade's the adapter fit's in, just like it was a magazine. (Except for that little grinding I told you on the paddle lever). Definitely wait till you get the adapter. Put it in, you'll see what on the tab you need to grind a little so the lever holds the adapter in place. Then you can work on the magazine going up inside the rifle. That will be pretty obvious once you start. But renegadebuck is there for you. He's awesome. He won't let you down. Actually, his instructions are on this forum or somewhere on the web. I looked at it before I got my adapter. Do a search and I think you'll find the instructions. later... mike.....
 
#138 ·
Yea, I've had a chance to shoot it. I had to do a little modifying; not really to the adapter, but to the rifle. Of 10 AR magazines, I've got 6 working real well. The other 4 had some issues, but I'm pretty sure it's more magazine related. Some had issues with the last 2 rounds in the magazine. I replaced the followers with some magpul followers. I'll probably be trying those mags this weekend. I have another small issue, but Mike (renegadebuck) is working with me on that. All in all, it is cool.
 
#139 ·
Jaredin; I finally finished my little "Modifications". Here's a picture of my saiga with Renegadebuck's AR/Saiga .223 adapter on it, that I got from coils. I had/have a couple of magazine issues, but those are totally magazine related. The 6 good AR magazines that I have, shoot great through the adapter. No issues at all. Sorry I don't have any close up shots of the adapter. This pic is a cell phone pic. My wife's the amateur photographer. I'll see if she'll take some better pics some time. Anyway, as you can see, the adapter looks like it's part of the gun and suppose to be there. Once renegadebuck gets back into production, I think you will be very pleased with his product. I am. Catch you later.... Mike.....
 
#140 ·
You guys won't believe this. I had my first can't be pleased customer. Yes, I know you can believe that. What is hard to believe is why. This guy has the only rifle so far that the adapter refuses to work on(when he has it). He shipped it to me(the rifle), I checked and fitted it, shot 60 rounds through it in 3 mags, no trouble. I ship it back, he's not happy. OK, I offer to buy it back. That's not good enough either. I'm suppose to buy the entire setup(of course this wouldn't make him happy either, so why bother) I said I'd buy the adapter back and that was it. He's suppose to send it, but who knows. This is the same guy that called at 3am to complain and ask for help. I have figured out why he's having trouble, but I think it better now, after my integrity was questioned and insulted, to just refund and say Bye bye! I really hate to, and hate this happened, but there are all kinds in this world. Some you can get along with and some you can't. Don't take this wrong. He may be a really nice guy, just not to me. :rant:
 
#141 ·
Does that mean you have your adapters back into production full force? That is great news. And yes, there are always going to be some people that you can never please. Then again, you have to wonder what is worse: That this person is buying adapters and trying to handle mechanical issues above his comprehension; OR, that he is actually PLAYING WITH GUNS!!!! Anyway, glad to hear things are back into production. I foresee a lot of happy customers for you. Later... Mike.....
 
#143 ·
I appreciate the offer. I have adapted mine however to fit Renegadebuck's. ( I only had to adapt to allow the AR magazine to fit "Deeper" into the mag well. That's the only modification I had to do. Wasn't hard at all. And if a person waits to get the adapter, you wouldn't even need instructions. It's quite obvious what needs to be done. The part I mentioned about the paddle of the Saiga mag release was just for convenience. And each rifle has different tolerances, so that isn't unreasonable.

I definitely appreciate the offer to evaluate your new adapter against Renegadebuck's. While I would love to try it out, I have to be honest and say that I'm not going to have ANY additional milling or grinding done to my rifle: Under ANY circumstances. NOW: If the modifications I did (Minor to allow the AR mags to seat deeper into the mag-well) I did for Renegadebuck's adapter is sufficient to also allow your adapter to work, then I'd be interested in looking at it. But I didn't have to do any modifying of the mag well opening or ANY other part of the rifle, other than the 2 nubs on the trunnion to allow the AR adapter to seat deeper. Your call. If you think I can test yours without any additional modifications, I'll give it a try. But I'm not going to "RISK" Renegadebuck's adapter not working again, which is a known good working product, by having to adapt my gun additionally for an adapter than isn't proven. PM if you want to. Mike....
 
#144 ·
No that is fine, you have already proven my point. You say you went "deeper" to allow an AR mag to fit in. In truth you opened it up as well. Like I said I deal in truth and fact in the instructions and you can not just go "deeper". You also have to open the well up in width also. The ledge you want to make "deeper" is cast and measured in width not depth. The type of mags used in the Saiga import is not the same as the Bulgy or Weiger. Go to a few gun shows and peek the wells you'll see what I am talking about. Fact is an AR mag is wider than a stock mag. No skirting the laws of physics here. A simple way of testing is grab a caliper and measure a stock trunnion and your milled/dremel one. Dimes to doughnuts you opened it up anywhere from the stock width to a width of .89 to .90 and possibly .91 if you are using a Magpul PMag.

By not needing instructions what you've provided was a general "put this on and look down the well and you see what needs to be removed" kind of perspective. Yes same could be said about the MSA adapter. It's not rocket science. Re reiterate I provide exact measurements not eyeball details. I did post photos for comparison... this is so you can have a comparison. I think a photo is worth a thousand words. Plus I like the nice clean look.

In closing, the customer RB had issue with on the mag rock is due to the same thing I am explaining to you. You can not expect to fit a AR mag and not have any rock with the Bulgies or other. This is due to opening up the width of the well. My whole purpose in addressing this was that for a while now the misconception of the "Ease of installation" of RB's adapter over mine is based on nothing but false information. Had it been true, the the customer who melted on RB at 3am would have never happened. Once again I thank you for conversing with me on it.



 
#145 ·
No, I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. I did NOT have to OPEN it up as well. The AR magazines fit LEFT and RIGHT just fine. I simply went DEEPER. Your 2nd picture where you show .96, I simply ground the nubs deeper so the magazine would go deeper. There are still nubs there on the trunnion, just not as thick. You might say that that is semantics and that I indeed made it "Wider"; at least at the BOTTOM of the nubs. That could in fact be viewed that way. But there are some people who milled both nubs totally from the inside outward and there is no nub left.

And to be honest, there is not that significant of a difference between the stock magazine and the AR. It's all a matter of the lip on the magazine resting in the right spot. In other words, I could totally modify an AR magazine, and not have to touch the rifle at all to make the Renegadebuck adapter work. That sort of defeats the purpose obviously, but the point is that a regular AR magazine fits fine in my Saiga. It just doesn't go deep enough. Thus, the grinding/milling of the nubs on the trunnion DOWNWARD (Looking from the bottom going towards the top). That is one reason I was so interested in the Renegadebuck setup. If for whatever reason, I simply snap out the adapter, and use the oem/surefire/promag magazines again.

Now, if what I did for the Renegadebuck adapter is enough of a change also for your MSA adapter to work, then yes, I'd be interested in trying one of yours out. And I would give an honest opinion. But I will be honest; if I can't simply snap the adapter in and throw an AR magazine in it and make it shoot; and I would need to alter/change anything else on the gun; then I would simply return it to you and say that I can't evaluate it. Basically, I don't want to have to modify any additional metal to make the MSA work, and "RISK" the Renegadebuck adapter not being able to work again.

But, if you believe that the grinding I did to make the AR mag fit with the Renegadebuck adapter is the same for your adapter, and that I wouldn't have to do anything different; then I would indeed be interested in comparing the two.
 
#146 ·
No, I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. I did NOT have to OPEN it up as well. The AR magazines fit LEFT and RIGHT just fine. I simply went DEEPER. Your 2nd picture where you show .96, I simply ground the nubs deeper so the magazine would go deeper.
Did you use a drill to remove the material? No you came in from the side on the "X" and "Y" axis. Therefore you opened it up... go to a CNC shop and ask them about starting points AKA "Reference Point"

There are still nubs there on the trunnion, just not as thick. You might say that that is semantics and that I indeed made it "Wider"; at least at the BOTTOM of the nubs. That could in fact be viewed that way.
You said I'm wrong then you say I'm right, which is it? Fact is you are dealing in 3D and removal of material with a cutter, not a drill, which travels just one axis. Yes this is what I am trying to get you to understand.

But there are some people who milled both nubs totally from the inside outward and there is no nub left.

So what your saying is they are widening the trunnion and not making it deeper? Seriously are you changing work planes again?

Semantics at this point as we are at different starting points. You are arguing the same thing I am but from a different starting point. You reference everything in 2D, yet explain in 3D. You keep referencing the "Z" axis where as I reference the "X" for YOUR 2D view of looking into the magwell..... as this pertains to WIDTH of the AR mag. This is where we are differing. And to correct you if you still have material then you need to reference both "X", "Y" and "Z".... You choose to only acknowledge everything in 2D yet reference a "Z" (3rd)axis. Sorry, I'm an engineer and your explanation is not sound. Start looking at everything in 3D as you are not holding a piece of paper.

And to be honest, there is not that significant of a difference between the stock magazine and the AR.
And once again you are not correct as to the difference between AR and stock mags. AR is wider just acknowledge the fact, or you wouldn't have to remove material.

I could totally modify an AR magazine, and not have to touch the rifle at all.
I pointed this out before when RB suggested (Last year) you mod the mag. When you do so and the follower tilts which it will be prone to do and you get a primer strike or nosedive. Send me the photos so I can say I told you so when it happens. You do NOT modify a mag in such a way. The only thing you have proven is your safety is not worth a thing as you do not understand the relation of the follower in a mag body.

I can sit here all day and debate the issue.... problem is you and I are saying the same damn thing which was my point all along. The install method of both adapters are identical. I'm not gonna waste time trying to explain when technically your right, but your explanation is wrong..... And you're trying to correct my verbage to suit your defense. At least to those who deal in 3D.

LOL this has been great. And yes I do want to send you an adapter.... There are two install methods to choose use the second as you will see it snaps right in.

Regards,
 
#151 ·
I have fitted it on my x39, and it fit without a hitch. I don't know if you'll have to do any work to the front trunnion or not. Try putting an AR mag in the gun as it is now. Will it fit tightly against the magrails, or does it hit the front trunnion first? If it hits the trunnion you'll have to enlarge the gap in the trunnion so the mags will fit to use the adapter. Most of the time on almost any standard .223 AK receiver, if the AR mag will fit in the magwell all the way, it will work.
I don't have a .223 Norinco yet. I have tried it on my x 39 Norinco and it fits perfectly, so I'm sure it will fit a .223.
 
#154 ·
hey Mike...I was pm'ing you about your ffl to see about shipping that rifle to you.

You can PM me contact info if you still wanna go that route or if you are way to busy just let me know and I can get back with you on shipping to me.

ps: I pm'd you on 7-13 if you wanna find it and respond...thanx mike I know you're very busy.
 
#155 ·
Oh yeah, sorry I get folks confused sometimes with the usernames and old age.
I really need to go see the prospective FFL and see if he'll work with me, as the former one I was using is now kaput. I'm waiting on my ammo to arrive so I can try and sell him some at the same time. I paid for it a month ago, and it still hasn't arrived. Too many Irons in the fire. I'll let you know when I know. Sorry it's taking so long.
 
#168 ·
In the course of dremelling down my trunnion lugs, I accidentally dremelled down the side rivets as well. There is still 1/16" or so left on each rivet protruding from the inside of the trunnion. Is that enough to securely hold the trunnion or should I drill out the rivets and replace them (if so what size)? If I have to replace them, would a $20 Harbor Freight rivet squeezer tool do the job without hurting the trunnion or frame?
 
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