Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 45

Thread: Saiga-12 gas piston and 922r

  1. #11
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    7,695
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)

    Default

    Good find! They indeed call that the piston and that count makes it 13. By definition that's what it is - the part that is actuated by gas pressure - so it makes sense. By definition an operating rod on autoloading rifles like the Garand is what we may call the charging handle. But on an AK the operating rod and bolt carrier are the same part, just like the hammer and sear. I am fairly certain they call a tappet on other guns the operating rod - like on the SKS or G36. Going from memory here so I can't be certain.

    I am only concerned they will pull a stunt like they did with the FAL charging handle and "suddenly" decide the bolt carrier extension is actually an Operating Rod and therefore a new part. Again, that will take little effort to build and I would not be too worried about it either way! I suppose if they REALLY wanted to get pissy about it, they could identify the striker (#22) as another part! LOL

    Based on that pic, and the already-published ATF doc, 13 is indeed the number of parts. Good for us. Easy to modify if necessary!



    Here's a question - if I were to make a thicker bolt carrier extension, would that cause any change to the action? Would it possibly reduce the recoil since the extra mass would absorb some of the recoil energy? Thinking totally in terms of performance now... would be similar to reducing the size of the gas port. Could be a way to make the system more tunable... ?
    Gunco Member #10

    http://pookieweb.net


    The "original" Boltcutter Rivet Squeezers:
    http://pookieweb.net/AK/rivet/boltcutters/boltcutter.htm


    Project Pink - the Pink and Blue AK-74:
    http://pookieweb.net/pink/pink.htm

  2. #12
    Chief Administrator 7.62x39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    6,545
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by hcpookie View Post
    Based on that pic, and the already-published ATF doc, 13 is indeed the number of parts.
    Once you add in the missing PG, you will be at 14.

    Comparing our normal AK count to above breakdown

    (1) Receiver = #1
    (2) Barrel = #2
    (3) Trunnion = N/A
    (4) Muzzle attachments N/A ?
    (5) Bolt = #16
    (6) Bolt carrier = #15
    (7) Gas piston = #8
    (8) Trigger = #31
    (9) Hammer = #33
    (10) Disconnecter = #37
    (11) Buttstock = #47
    (12) Pistol grip = not shown
    (13) Forearm handguards = #49
    (14) Magazine body = #53
    (15) Follower = #55
    (16) Floorplate = #58


    I currently have FCG=3, PG=1, total =4
    I will be changing out the forearm as soon as Scott's are finished, probably the stock as well. There's 2 more. Using the AGP mag adds 3 more. At that point I will have a total of 9. More than enough, even if they do decide to change the count.
    When I add the MD, it will be US made also, so it will cancel itself out.
    .

  3. #13
    Chief Administrator 7.62x39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    6,545
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hcpookie View Post
    Here's a question - if I were to make a thicker bolt carrier extension, would that cause any change to the action? Would it possibly reduce the recoil since the extra mass would absorb some of the recoil energy? Thinking totally in terms of performance now... would be similar to reducing the size of the gas port. Could be a way to make the system more tunable... ?
    I didn't get a chance to investigate as to the whys and wherefores yet. But I did start to read some info on one of the forums about how the 3 gun match shooters were adding a 4th gas port to the barrel.

    Maybe they are shooting very low power shells?
    .

  4. #14
    BANNED nalioth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    1,529
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7.62x39 View Post
    I didn't get a chance to investigate as to the whys and wherefores yet. But I did start to read some info on one of the forums about how the 3 gun match shooters were adding a 4th gas port to the barrel.

    Maybe they are shooting very low power shells?
    No. The 4th port (or enlarging the original 3) is for those who shorten their barrels to minimum legal (or NFA) length.

    It provides more OOOMPH to the weapon operation at the expense of the projectile.

  5. #15
    Chief Administrator 7.62x39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    6,545
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)

    Default

    That makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.
    .

  6. #16
    Chief Administrator 7.62x39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    6,545
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DPH arms View Post
    Once we get a clear word on which way to go, we will have them made and keep them in stock.

    Scott
    That's good news.
    We all like to help support those, who help support us.
    .

  7. #17
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    7,695
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)

    Default

    Hey I was browsing the Saiga-12 forums and saw an old post where Tromix said they didn't have an official letter from the ATF saying that was in fact the gas piston, but that they were proceeding on the premise that it is, given the fact that that is what the factory documentation calls it (DUH!!!).

    So to answer my original question, no they don't have an "ATF letter of blessing", but that *IS* the piston as we've already established, so I can't see a problem by using one of them. Just like we don't need an ATF letter saying that Scott's new tri-rail handguard is actually a handguard!
    Gunco Member #10

    http://pookieweb.net


    The "original" Boltcutter Rivet Squeezers:
    http://pookieweb.net/AK/rivet/boltcutters/boltcutter.htm


    Project Pink - the Pink and Blue AK-74:
    http://pookieweb.net/pink/pink.htm

  8. #18
    Chief Administrator 7.62x39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    6,545
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)

    Default

    I'm not so sure the piston is as cut and dried as the handguard.
    A handguard is a handguard, (with the exception of the AMD-63 and 65, and how many threads have we seen pop up on that subject).

    In this instance we have to totally separate parts which could be considered the piston. While I totally agree that the puck is, and should be referred to as the piston. I still can't believe that the ATF is not counting the traditional looking piston as a 922r part. In theory it should be counted as a op rod, but isn't.

    I'd really like to see it clarified by the ATF, just to be positive.
    .

  9. #19
    Chief Administrator 7.62x39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    6,545
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)

    Default

    Chaos makes one also. I wonder if they ever got it verified?
    .

  10. #20
    Gunco Member HarvKY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    32
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)

    Default

    The aftermarket "piston" that Tromix and others are selling serves what function?........

    If you dont call that the piston, what would you call it? ..........

    I dont think you've got any grey area legally.
    Now if you want to argue that BATF doesnt always use their "grey matter", then thats a whole nother debate

    Cheers, HarvKY

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Search tags for this page

There are currently no search engine referrals.
Click on a term to search our site for related topics.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •