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Thread: What happens If a stamp is denied by ATF

  1. #11
    Gunco Good ole boy kernelkrink's Avatar
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    It's called a "living trust", they are most commonly used to avoid paying death taxes and going through probate. They are similar to a corporation, a "legal person" that can own property. Real flesh and blood people are known as "natural persons" in legalese. Normally all it takes is filing some paperwork with your state to set one up, a lawyer is definitely recommended although some Will writing software includes trust setup forms.

    The requirement for a local LE "signoff" is the major stumbling block to NFA ownership for most people. If your local chief or sheriff doesn't want to approve youir application going the trust or corp route cuts him out of the process.

    In a traditional living trust situation the person transfers all their assets to it and names their heirs as in line to control the trust after their death. Thus, when they die no will or probate needs to be processed, the control of the trust automatically transfers to the next person in line.

    In regards to NFA items the trust or corporation can own property including NFA items. Since a "legal person" can't have a police record the trust or corp does not have to get the permission of local law enforcement to own NFA items.

  2. #12
    Always sore, always tired Bradrock's Avatar
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    I used a simple step by step program on Quicken Willmaker & had it notarized for free at my bank.
    " Save a tree...........Eat A Beaver!"

  3. #13
    Gunco Member andyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    If they really want to raise some money, they need to reopen the registry and stand back!
    and......boom, no more deficit spending, lol

  4. #14
    Gunco Regular Shadow Walker's Avatar
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    Don't feel bad. I order a license to become a Machine dealer from the ATF. The ATF sent me (2) licenses to run two Moonshine Stills in Mississippi. Seriously!!

    I sent the stamps back, and they sent me the Machinegun Dealer license. All that covered a bunch of months.

    After a couple years, they brought phoney criminal charges against me. Six months later, a federal judge threw out the charges. I told the ATF agents.... if I had to deal with them I would never sell another gun. I gave my machinegun license back, and to hell with them.

    I kept my homemade SMGs though. Still have them almost forty years later.

    Congratulations! You have now come to their attention. Expect strange people to drop out of the ether asking you to break all kind of laws, or want you to purchase un-licensed firearms. Some of which will make you really drool over them.

    I was asked to bump off a killer (in jail). I was offered a cased sniper rifle with silencer for $300, and another time, a M-2 .50 MG with tripod for $125.

    I was also asked to work undercover for the ATF and sell un-licensed machineguns (which the ATF would supply) to the local police force. I turned that down as well, which they really didn't like. Why? If I couldn't talk any cops into purchasing a un-licensed machinegun, the ATF could have charged me with possession of the same un-licensed machineguns. Either way, they would have looked good to their superiors, and helped out their future promotions.
    Last edited by Shadow Walker; 05-13-2010 at 10:28 AM.

  5. #15
    Gunco Member Riddbits's Avatar
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    The first time you purchase a NFA item takes the longest. I was approved and added to a Class 3 in 3 weeks, but four years after I had left the company, it took 4 months to approve a transfer! There is no logic or reason for how long it takes them to approve stuff, you just have to wait.

  6. #16
    Gunco Rookie GoodOlDave's Avatar
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    Let me put it this way...when I went for my silencer, I tried to do the CLEO option under the (it turns out) naive belief that if you're a law abiding citizen, stay out of trouble, pay your taxes, and all that, they'll reward you for not causing them any mischief. I made an appointment with the resident state trooper to get my fingerprints taken, dropped off my two passport photos, and all of that. I then set to wait.

    ...and wait...and wait...and wait.

    After a little over a month I called the lieutenant who was goign to look at the paperwork, and I found out the resident state trooper never gave it to him! He said he'll take care of it, so I sat out to wait.

    ...and wait...and wait...and wait.

    After ANOTHER month I called the lieutenant to find the status, and he told me he was declining it! Never mind that I'm gainfully employed, had a carry permit for 20+ years, and probably have a better credit rating that he did. I asked him why, and he wouldn't tell me! He said, and I quote, "that I would need to subpoena him and bring him before a judge for him to disclose his reasons". Keep in mind the CLEO signoff isn't to get his personal approval. It's to show that having a silencer was legal for where I live. This guy simply didn't like people having silencers and he didn't want to come out and say it becuase state law doesn't allow him to decline applications for that reason. What's worse is that he wouldn't even call me to tell me- I'd still be waiting even now if I didn't call him.

    After that annoyance I said [censored] this and went through the trust route. It took about a week to get the paperwork for the trust set up, and after sending it in, I wound up with a VERY fast examiner who approved my form 4 in a little over two months. Therefore, I am not exaggerating in the least when I say I wasted more time fooling with getting the runaround from a bunch of cops and not getting anywhere, than I did going the trust route and getting approved successfully.

    The moral of the story? GO THE TRUST ROUTE!

  7. #17
    Always sore, always tired Bradrock's Avatar
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    I learned one thing....if your form 4 is disapproved, don't expect your $200.00 back anytime soon.
    They told me 90 - 120 days for refund & they were correct!
    " Save a tree...........Eat A Beaver!"

  8. #18
    THE 9mm ADDICT MUSIBIKE's Avatar
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    My last one took almost 4 months. Transfer from an out of state seller to my Class III dealer took one month and $200. Then, transfer from the dealer here in my state took another 3 months and a second $200!
    M U S I B I K E

  9. #19
    Gunco Member CaptMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSIBIKE View Post
    My last one took almost 4 months. Transfer from an out of state seller to my Class III dealer took one month and $200. Then, transfer from the dealer here in my state took another 3 months and a second $200!
    I know the feeling MUSIBIKE, damn near the same thing happened to me. The waiting game sucks but when it's over.........it's worth it.
    CaptMax

  10. #20
    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    Post Interesting..

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Walker View Post
    Don't feel bad. I order a license to become a Machine dealer from the ATF. The ATF sent me (2) licenses to run two Moonshine Stills in Mississippi. Seriously!!

    I sent the stamps back, and they sent me the Machinegun Dealer license. All that covered a bunch of months.

    After a couple years, they brought phoney criminal charges against me. Six months later, a federal judge threw out the charges. I told the ATF agents.... if I had to deal with them I would never sell another gun. I gave my machinegun license back, and to hell with them.

    I kept my homemade SMGs though. Still have them almost forty years later.

    Congratulations! You have now come to their attention. Expect strange people to drop out of the ether asking you to break all kind of laws, or want you to purchase un-licensed firearms. Some of which will make you really drool over them.

    I was asked to bump off a killer (in jail). I was offered a cased sniper rifle with silencer for $300, and another time, a M-2 .50 MG with tripod for $125.

    I was also asked to work undercover for the ATF and sell un-licensed machineguns (which the ATF would supply) to the local police force. I turned that down as well, which they really didn't like. Why? If I couldn't talk any cops into purchasing a un-licensed machinegun, the ATF could have charged me with possession of the same un-licensed machineguns. Either way, they would have looked good to their superiors, and helped out their future promotions.
    Just found your post.. I will second your statements. Rite after I got my NFA stamp..
    I got a P.M. from a new member from Germany who wanted too send me full autos. All I had too do was file down the sears when they got here to make them legal.
    Even told me it would be legal and easy. Just use a dremmel tool.
    Strange people out their. Whoever they are. Hmmm. Wonder who would know I just got a legal NFA..
    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


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