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Thread: Whispers of ATF snitches and U.S. vs. Clark. at the SHOT show

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    Class 07 FFL/SOT dinkydow's Avatar
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    Default Whispers of ATF snitches and U.S. vs. Clark. at the SHOT show

    ATF has now stated that after having the Department of Justice (DOJ), Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) review 18 U.S.C. § 922, it has been decided by OLC that a manufacture may stockpile as many post-86 machineguns as that manufacturer sees fit; however, only the manufacturer may manufacture the post-86 machinegun. What this means, is that it is no longer acceptable or legal, even if the manufacturer has a variance approving the following, for one manufacturer to manufacture the receiver, register the receiver on a Form 2, and then transfer the receiver on a Form 3 to another manufacturer for completion. The OLC has determined that the only transfer of a post-86 machinegun is to a law enforcement agency. There are clearly other concerning issues with regards to this that I will not address, in the hopes that they have eluded ATF.

    Sipsey Street Irregulars: What they did, and didn't, talk about at the NFATCA public meeting at the SHOT Show. Whispers of ATF snitches and U.S. vs. Clark.

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    So....there are NO MORE transfers of PMDSS machineguns between Machinegun dealers and manufacturers? ONLY to law enforcement?
    www.wellcoarms.com

    Roger Baldwin,Founder of the ACLU: "We are for Socialism,disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the State itself...we seek the social ownership of property...and the sole control of those who produce wealth.Communism is the goal."

    WOLVERINES!

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    Gunco Regular akfiend's Avatar
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    also says barrels have to be torch cut now instead of drilled in three spots.

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    Gunco Member bulrich's Avatar
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    WTF!

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    Starting over PvtPyle's Avatar
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    OK, so you buy a normal receiver, manufacture them into a MG on your form 2, and you are good. As a licensed MFG, you are making the MG, not the person who made the title 1 receiver.

    As for getting one finished by another MFG, you add it to the registry on your form 2, then form 5 it to another MFG for the finish work? Maybe I missed something but this seems like the logical, and LEGAL way to do it.

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    GuncoHolic kernelkrink's Avatar
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    I think they are mainly concerned with manufacturers that subcontract completed receiver work to another manufacturer. For example, I have heard Ruger makes numerous receivers for other makers, and the receivers are never marked as coming from Ruger because they have a variance from ATF to do so. Now, say Ruger is making M16 lowers for S&W, and is sending FA receivers to them on a Form3. They are marked S&W, not Ruger, but Ruger is the manufacturer, not S&W. S&W merely assembles them into rifles for sale to PDs, legally Ruger is the maker of the MG so the transfer to S&W is technically illegal. The big thing is, as they present it, no more post may dealer samples even with a letter from your local PD. Which begs the question, what about the ones already out there? "Grandfathered"? Or are a lot of dealers gonna be cutting up guns or donating them to their local PDs? What about the 487 Ruger made receivers already sitting on S&Ws shelf?

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    Gunco Regular PuppyChow's Avatar
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    would this maybe have to do with the show sons of guns where other class III are getting red jacket to build their full auto post 86 'samples' to add to their collections ?

    just a thought

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    Gunco Member Sharpshooter's Avatar
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    What I am waiting for them to say is that it is illegal for a manufacture to make a new barrel to complete a kit. Or that a barrel is the gun. IMO its only a matter of time
    “Freedom. And Justice. If you have those two, it covers everything. You must stick to those principles and have the courage of your convictions.” - Ian Smith

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    Gunco Regular bubbamauser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyChow View Post
    would this maybe have to do with the show sons of guns where other class III are getting red jacket to build their full auto post 86 'samples' to add to their collections ?

    just a thought
    BINGO

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    NoWorkCamp4Me railbuggy's Avatar
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    Did ATF get you?
    SOON-We already lost the war. You are the resistance.

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    GuncoHolic twa2471's Avatar
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    I'm sure they have been learking around shows for a bit now,, looking. I know one of my buds almost had some issues with selling some stuff in a "box-o-parts he had on the table a couple years ago at the Barre gun show. I don't know the particulars, but from what I gather there was some No-Nos in there?? He didn't know much about it eaither as he's more of an antque gun dealer and civil war buff, just a box-o-parts picked up in a trade somewheres. Don't even know what they were. I guess there was lots of questions about them though, but everything turned out OK for him in the end. But it has made him very carefull what he sells now, and I can't blame him. Musta made him nervious when the "men in black" came around asking him a bunch of questions though. Would me!!

    Looks like ya got to be careful what ya sell if you don't really know what you might have on the table. I don't even bothering going to shows anymore, everything is so outa line price wise your better off just going to a shop. Around here it's cheaper than the show prices it seems. All these vendors at the shows are asking list +++ it seems. Yea you'll get an occasional bargin ,, but few and far between nowdays. The last couple times I went I only came home with a couple accessorys and a tanned hide, not a single gun,not to many good gun deals to be had there now. And most are quite a bit away from here so it's not cost effective for me to go hopeing for that hidden treasure to pop up. Just mostly overpriced stuff. I try to get stuff in the "off season" like deer rifles ect. I look for them in the early spring after season is over and you can usually find some good deals then, otherwise prices around here have consistantly been creeping upwards. All the rest, AK's AR's, handguns,,,, forget it, there all high now and no one wants to cut you a deal at all, even if you have done allot of bussness with them before. It's a sellers market now, so they don't have to.

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