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my first UNSAFE AK!!

3K views 23 replies 9 participants last post by  hotbarrel 
#1 ·
I am going to post this here and another page because I feel it is so important.
I got ont of the Rommy, wasr, AK22 rifles about 6 months ago. I fired a couple shots and spoke highly of it. all this time I have wated for the side mount scope. I fired it yesterday and I honestly feel it is NOT SAFE!! the problem was out of battery fire!!! it would fire two rounds with one pull of the trigger. when I looked into it I found one unfired round in the chamber and one EXPLODED case in the reciever! I do not know ware the bullet went. I believe the rim fire went off from the bolt smacking it. I do not know..
the exploded case was sometimes swollen out in the rear to the point of rupture and sometimes just exploded. yikes.
I found the extractor to be poor at best and failed to pull when cycling by hand. I found the bolt did not allways close all the way.
I found a lot of play ware the bolt slides on the rails resulting it the bolt hitting the side of the trunion preventing the lockup. I rounded over a corner to help assure the bolt would no longer hit dirrectly on the edje of the trunion, and now end up in the rite place. this made the hand cycle a lot smother. but did not fix all the trouble. close inspection showed the bolt face was not lined up exactly over the barrel hole. evidanced by the scraping on one side of the brass after I wiggeled it in and out a few times. their also was a lot of brass on the bolt face edje ware it was forcing the back of the round into the bolt face. again yikes.
I worked on and fought with this thing for HOURS and was not able to get 5 rounds in a row without an explosion. what I POS.
I just felt it was important to pass this along . if you want one be carefull.
 
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#2 ·
This is a .22 cal rifle?

I'm asking because the AK design has a tang on the rear of the bolt carrier that almost completely prevents out of battery detonations. The hammer simply cannot strike the firing pin until the bolt is completely locked in battery. A stuck firing pin though can cause an OOB detonation, though that's really rare. I don't know about the .22 version though. It may not have this feature.
 
#4 ·
I think the OOB detonations in the AKM and AK74 designs are from stuck firing pins. Take your dust-cover off one day and watch the hammer follow the bolt, and you'll see what I mean about the tang on the back of the bolt-carrier.

Again I don't know squat about the .22 cal version. It may not have this feature.
 
#5 ·
GunsRfun said:
mine had a out of battery fire once too... that i found. it double taped with one pull, this was when it was new. so far it seems to run good. im going to have to make a brass catcher...
There is a big difference between out of battery fire and a double tap. The double tap is basically just a bump fire. They are common and most often occur when shooting on the bench becasue your arm/trigger finger is frozen in place through contact with the bench.

MR is right about the extension on the back of the bolt carrier. It should prevent out of battery fires unless the firing pin is stuck and protruding.

HB, The difficulty getting the bolt to close all the way is usually due to a missalignment between the barrel axis and the reciever axis. Most common is that the barrel is angled down. The easiest way to check is to see how well the gas piston lines up with the gas block.


What does the primer look like on the exploded case?
 
#6 ·
I had the same thing happen to my Romy .22 trainer. It wanted to go full auto and also had an OOB detonation. I checked the firing pin and it was not stuck. The hammer casting on my rifle was very poor and I had to draw file it to make a better mating surface so it would catch more safely (you could see where the hammer was catching just enough to delay the hammer and cause it to fire repeatedly. Then I filed the bottom of the front end of the disconnector so it would catch more of the hammer and put in a heavier (standard) disconnector spring. Since I worked the rifle over, I have never had any problems in several hundred rounds. I pull triggers very slowly as I am a target shooter and I can't get the gun to bump now even if I try, and that's the way I like it. It's also a very accurate rifle especially for one that looks so cool.
 
#7 ·
nice tip on the axis part.... as my only complaint ever has been that every now and then my bolt will stick open.
 
#8 ·
I probably should mention that there is a huge difference between a .22 trainer and a standard AKM. The .22 does not have a gas piston or a tang on the back of the bolt carrier to prevent OOB detonations. For that matter - it doesn't even have a separate bolt carrier. The bolt and bolt carrier are one piece. The OOB detonation concerned me so I pulled a bullet and powder from a .22 cartridge and partially chambered it with only the priming compound in the case. With the top cover off, I dropped the hammer and the priming compound popped! There is a strong possibility of OOB detonations during doubles with the .22 because it is so different from the standard AKM. I understand the mechanics of the AKM, but the principles of it just don't apply to the .22 - except in the fire control group. The top of the hammer on my .22 was so rounded after only 50 rounds that I believe it would have doubled or went FA in a machine rest! I truly feel that trying to break in a gun with poor fit and castings could prove to be dangerous and this is why I responded to this thread. If you decide to try breaking the gun in rather than correcting the problem MAKE SURE YOU WEAR GOOD SAFETY GLASSES! JMHO
 
#10 ·
dutigaf said:
another reason to stay with a regular AK...????


i'll keep my 22's for my 1919. lmao
You have a good point there! I'm also partial to the regular AK's. I still like my trainer and feel safe with it but Also think that the Russians put a lot more thought into the original AK47 than the Romanians put into the the trainer. I've also had tiny cuts above my eye from a Ciener M16 .22 conversion firing out of battery. The difference between an AKM and a .22 trainer firing out of battery is like the difference between holding a "black cat" or a "cherry bomb" in your hand. All I'm saying is fix it, don't shoot it, or be extremely careful with it and WEAR SAFETY GLASSES!:thumbup1:
 
#11 ·
I got one of these trainers and it seems to work pretty good, put over 1000 rnds through it so far. It did do the double/triple thing already but that was because of an empty case getting into the reciever and got into the FCG, had 1 slam fire and have'nt had any OOB.
Rich you make a good point about checking the condition of the FCG for fit and finish, you can tell not much care was taken with them.
 
#12 ·
hotbarrel said:
I am going to post this here and another page because I feel it is so important.
I got ont of the Rommy, wasr, AK22 rifles about 6 months ago. I fired a couple shots and spoke highly of it. all this time I have wated for the side mount scope. I fired it yesterday and I honestly feel it is NOT SAFE!! the problem was out of battery fire!!! it would fire two rounds with one pull of the trigger. when I looked into it I found one unfired round in the chamber and one EXPLODED case in the reciever! I do not know ware the bullet went. I believe the rim fire went off from the bolt smacking it. I do not know..
the exploded case was sometimes swollen out in the rear to the point of rupture and sometimes just exploded. yikes.
I found the extractor to be poor at best and failed to pull when cycling by hand. I found the bolt did not allways close all the way.
I found a lot of play ware the bolt slides on the rails resulting it the bolt hitting the side of the trunion preventing the lockup. I rounded over a corner to help assure the bolt would no longer hit dirrectly on the edje of the trunion, and now end up in the rite place. this made the hand cycle a lot smother. but did not fix all the trouble. close inspection showed the bolt face was not lined up exactly over the barrel hole. evidanced by the scraping on one side of the brass after I wiggeled it in and out a few times. their also was a lot of brass on the bolt face edje ware it was forcing the back of the round into the bolt face. again yikes.
I worked on and fought with this thing for HOURS and was not able to get 5 rounds in a row without an explosion. what I POS.
I just felt it was important to pass this along . if you want one be carefull.
Could you post some images of the problem parts and the exploded casings? I'm curious to see the condition of parts that cause that many problems.
 
#13 ·
ozzy.
their is no gas piston, thies things only look the safe, they work totaly differant. the gas tube is ONLY for looks.

rich.
that is what I was thinking too. rework the FCG some..thanks fro all your time and good advise.
REWORK starts today..
as for accurate I agree their too"prety darn good"

golovko.
sorry my camera is not capable of pics clear enough to show that kind of detail.
I can tell you that the back of some casses looked like mushrooms , swolen out for about 1/8 inch down the case, often with holes blown in them.
the FCG allready showed signs of some kind of rework but even that was crude at best.

more info when I am finished today.
 
#14 ·
coils
maby your GOOD results is evidance that the FCG is the only real issue here. if you got a good FCG combination that would make sence.
It is good to hear a good report on this as I do not want to give up on it. I have a few friends that are real in to 22's and do not like it whan I fire the 8MM ammo so this way I get my AK and they get their low noise. WIN WIN!!
 
#15 ·
OK here is my update.
I did some majoy "fitting" on the FCG. I fit the original rommy FCG rite into the trash and put in a polish FCG. now all my problems are gone !!WOW !!

here are some observations. first the hammer had been ground poorly rite ware the sear catches it, I believe this happened when someone ground down the striking face of the hammer. it is very strange that they ground off material on the top front of the hammer because it dose not contact anything. I could see and have done it myself, to remove and shape material on the lower front of the hammer face to smooth out the cycle, but grinding from the top dose nouthing. all this hammer work was done AFTER it was finished so I can not say who did it.
now for the differance in the sear. the hook had been milled smaller at the factory. it looks like they milled up into the hook bringing it up some, however this also resulted in it beeing a shorter hook. this work all looks to be factory.
the trigger looks the same as the polish.
the hammer spring was not wound, instead it was a single wire.
I cycled the bolt again and again to assure the sear would catch in time, before the bolt bottomed out against the stop plate. I also wanted to assure the hammer would fall properly into the trigger hook when I let go of the trigger.
I could clearly hear the sear CLICK onto the hammer and their was still about 1/16" travel of the bolt after the sear fell. everything looked much better. I shook the gun tapped the but on the floor and about anything else I could think of trying to get the sear to fail and it held fast. the original would "let go" prety easy due to the grinding of the hammer and small sear hook.
so I decided to go out and try it. I have about 50 rounds and zero OOB explosions !! great!! the only issue I had was a feed failure and I can deal with that because it did not seem unsafe maby just some mag fitting. someday.

anyway the long and short of it is the FCG was ruined when someone ground down the hammer. I do not know who did it as this was a new in the box gun from IO but someone took the hammer out and put it to a wheel screwing it all up.
it is prety clear that the sear hook and hammer hook MUST not be at an angel to each other or the sear will just slide off, resulting in trouble.

thanks for your help everyone !! I hope this may help anothre member some day too. HB
 
#16 ·
I did some majoy "fitting" on the FCG. I fit the original rommy FCG rite into the trash
LOL :D I'm sorry to hear you had such a problem with this but glad to hear you most likely found the problem. That's really weird how that FCG was worked on, sounds like they hired a drunken monkey :D
 
#18 ·
I think you are BOTH rite drunken monkeys at century !!

well here is my dissapointing range report.. it remains accurate, but that is the ONLY thing good about it. I realy wanted to like this gun but their is nouthing to like!! at this time I feel it is a compleat hunk of crap!! total crap!! nouthing but a waste of $$ I greatly regret wateing all those months for the scope..

the feed was NOT reliable at all
it double fired a 1/2 dozzen times
it would not allways eject
it fired one time when I jacked the first round into the chamber, YIKES!!! ,now that is a deal breaker.

if I can not get even one mag through without a feed jam it is of no value to me..
at this point I do NOT want to do any f&*%^$%( fitting to the mag to work on the feed trouble.
I am forced to give this POS a BIG FAIL rateing. DO NOT BUY ONE!!!
 
#19 ·
I've been using Remington Golden Bullets (bulk box) because I got a bunch of it, I tried a few other brands but didn't really get to experiment with them to much. Once and a while I'll get one that jams while feeding but it might be because the bullet is a HP and it let's the tip deform easier when it hits the rim of the chamber.

As for accuracy I think these are very good, I put a cheap 4x NcStar on mine and with the remington ammo I'd say it gets about a 6" group at 100 yards from the bench. I have'nt tried it on paper yet but shooting at clay birds it's either a hit or just around it.

I got lucky and found a Romy funiture set for a good price and put that on it.



I'm also trying to get those German mags to work, so far I can get this one to feed well but sometimes I have ejecting issues, I fired it once with the top cover off and most of the empties were going to the right but a couple went straight up. I'm not giving up on some kind of a high-cap mag for this, the only other 22 mags I know of that hold more then 10 rnds and are cheap (cheap being key) are the ones for the Ruger 10/22, I'll have to try something with them next.

 
#22 ·
Hotbarrel I think I'd be digging the FCG out of the trash and reinstalling it, then call the people you bought it from and ask for another rifle, if that one doesn't work then demand a refund.
 
#23 ·
ozzy the nuke said:
There is a big difference between out of battery fire and a double tap. The double tap is basically just a bump fire. They are common and most often occur when shooting on the bench becasue your arm/trigger finger is frozen in place through contact with the bench.

MR is right about the extension on the back of the bolt carrier. It should prevent out of battery fires unless the firing pin is stuck and protruding.

HB, The difficulty getting the bolt to close all the way is usually due to a missalignment between the barrel axis and the reciever axis. Most common is that the barrel is angled down. The easiest way to check is to see how well the gas piston lines up with the gas block.


What does the primer look like on the exploded case?
i know the differnce. it did both :rofl: it double tapped and on the seconed shot it was out of battery fire. mushroomed shell with a hole in it. this was when it was new. so far it works well (knocks on wood).

and hotbarrel you think a romi ak74 FCG would help? i have one from a wasr 2 locap. that i converted to a hicap aims clone.
if you want to try that, i will drop it in the mail for ya.
 
#24 ·
GunsRfun
thanks very much for the offer I think the fcg is no longer the issu.
what I have done after I cooled down some was to take the mag appart and removed some material on the top of the mag block and "adjusted" the screw hole some . the result is the mag fits higher in the reciever so the bolt hits the round better AND the bullet is a lot colser to alignment with the barrel hole. this has greatly improved the feed issue. all in all I can give it about a grade of 70% now , not great.
I do not think I should have to do major work to a new gun. the only reason I did this time is becaues I bought it SO LONG ago, I did not want to fire much till I got the scope and that took like 6 months.. oh well win some and .... well you know HAHA
 
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