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Thread: A Reminder of Why You Can't and Don't Want to Convert Your AK to full Auto.

  1. #141
    Gunco Member DonW's Avatar
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    Want to know how they get away selling drop in FA sears for an AR-15?
    It's called a SAP TRAP. -get it?

  2. #142
    Gunco Rookie 3 WEELIN GEEZER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOID ZODIAN View Post

    To manufacture an AK as a semi auto weapon, a different fire control group is used; a different bolt carrier is used; and the receiver is machined slightly differently. You as a civilian cannot legally find any way on earth to convert your lawfully-purchased semi-auto AK to full auto. Period. End of Story. I won't go into the laws here, but suffice it to say that if it wasn't already what is called a "fully transferable" full auto AK, dutifully registered as such by the Federal Government, then you can't own it. Deal with it.
    I have to disagree with you on this one. Where there is a will, there is a way. You are assuming that one must live in the US. One can always move to say the Phillipenes. Or one can lobby to change our laws. Yes, its an uphill battle but it can be done.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZOID ZODIAN View Post
    1.... worth being married to a guy covered with tattoos for several years.
    Whats wrong with that? To each his own. Tattoos are not bad either.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZOID ZODIAN View Post

    Since the AK action is not "timed", your little file job has created a situation where there is NOTHING to prevent that round from firing as soon as the bolt face touches it. The hammer falls with the bolt carrier, and so will detonate the primer as soon as it can, whether the round is chambered and the bolt is closed or not. So instead of that full auto AK you always wanted, you now have one that will eventually kill or injure you or bystanders the first time it fires a round out of battery.
    :smile:
    I don't see how this would happen as the f/p is shrouded by the bolt until its locked up or very close to it. The hammer riding it home just won't have enough momentum to dent the f/p. Maybe a light indentation but nothing special to write to congress about. It only leads to disappointment like a little kid making this ...."thing" for the lack of a better word out of imagination and lincoln logs and expecting it to actually transmit a radio signal only to be totally disappointed moments later when he calls someone and it dawns on him that its just a bunch of wood blocks.

  3. #143
    Cuerno de Chivo chipmechanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonW View Post
    Want to know how they get away selling drop in FA sears for an AR-15?
    It's called a SAP TRAP. -get it?
    Actually ...

    Prior to 1981 you could buy a drop in auto sear through the mail and register it after you got it or you could register a receiver and use the sear without registering it as long as it was used in a registered receiver. The sear itself did not need to be registered but it could be if you wanted to. In 1981 the ATf ruled that the drop in auto sear itself was the machinegun and started requiring registration of the sear. The drop in auto sears themselves that were for registered receiver guns registered prior to 1981 are not considered machineguns and can be purchased as replacement parts for pre81 registered receiver guns that use a non registered drop in sear. If you have a non registered drop in sear registered receiver gun it was made prior to 1981 and you can replace the sear if its damaged with a new one. The sear itself does not need to have been manufactured prior to 1981. Ostensibly thats what the pre 81 drop in auto sears are for and thats how they can get away with selling them even now. Theres probably a few hundred at best non registered drop in sear registered receiver AR-15's out there but thats what those mail order sears are leagal for. In anything else they are a felony in the mailbox . I would imagine they sell more pre 81 sears than the guns that need them as replacement parts require. The ATF banned the manufacture of these drop in sears for registered receiver guns at the same time they banned the manufacture of new open bolt semiautomatic guns.

    The types of legal AR-15 machineguns are...

    1. Factory full auto M16's
    2. AR 15's that have registered receivers and have been drilled for an M-16 auto sear
    3. AR 15's that have a registered lightning link
    4. AR 15's that were made as registered receiver guns prior to 1981 that use a non registered drop in auto sear
    5. AR 15's that use a non registered receiver and a registered drop in auto sear that has been registered either prior to or after 1981


    Ive known people who purchased the supress on drop ins 10 years or so ago. No one ever knocked on their door besides the mail man with their sear.



  4. #144
    Gunco Member grayfox's Avatar
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    These are all great post. Quick story..I work security at a steel mill. About a year ago one of the employees got into a fight with his live-in girlfriend. As the LEOs were questioning them, she stated " Yeah & he has a machine gun in the bedroom. Turns out he had sent an M-4 while he was in Irag back home in parts. Man he got nailed. He is now serving 10 yrs. Just isn't worth it.

  5. #145
    Gunco Member willyj's Avatar
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    Hey Chip:

    On all your SOT information. If making a FA as part of your business could you make them to host shoots? Or do they all have to be pre 1986.

    Can I create a business. Get my FFL and SOT. Make Full auto, bull doze a back stop on five acres I have and charge people to come shoot full auto guns that I make and use for my business?

  6. #146
    Cuerno de Chivo chipmechanic's Avatar
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    If you are not making sales on your manufactured items then you do not have to pay ITAR which is a fee that was added a few years ago under some international arms trafficking treaty. If its just research and development and standard title 1 and class 3 sales stuff then you are OK. Pretty much as long as you dont sell your own manufactured items you can use them in your business any way you see fit including rental shoots. If you start selling class 3 items that you manufacture then you have to pay ITAR fees which I believe are $1500 a year.

    You can transfer class 3 items made before 86 as dealer samples between C3 dealers no problem any time with a form 3. If its post may 86 dealer samples then they need to have a letter from your local PD asking specifically for that item for evaluation or purchase..

    My word is not the gospel and I was wrong twice before so best bet is to speak to a real ATF agent who can help you with specifics but what I have stated here is about the gist of it.



  7. #147
    Gunco Member willyj's Avatar
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    Good disclaimer and dully noted.

    Thank for your advice though! Pretty sad when you have to make a business just to get a cheaper full auto.... figure that way I could spread the fun though and maybe make some extra coin.


    BTW.... having fired full auto, burst, and mounted machine guns.... bumping is lame. Those who say it is better are just wasting ammo. I see it as more dangerous as you not holding the weapon in the manner it was meant to. A good shoulder to stock weld with a firm grasp on the weapon. The youtube videos look embarrasing and dangerous compared to what a moderately trained person can do wiht a FA gun. A good machine gunner can learn to be accurate with his bursts. I ran a M249 for years as an 11M Infantryman. I never just held down the trigger and let go... (well once.... . With a controlled burst you provide covering fire, masking fire, accurate suppressing fire as well as multiple shot placement.

    I would rather have a select fire weapon in combat and have the option to suppress with a volley of fire and then go semi for accurate placed shots while my battle buddy covers me. In a team setting you concerve ammo and cover each other well by alternating.

  8. #148
    Administrator sniper69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willyj View Post
    Good disclaimer and dully noted.

    Thank for your advice though! Pretty sad when you have to make a business just to get a cheaper full auto.... figure that way I could spread the fun though and maybe make some extra coin.


    BTW.... having fired full auto, burst, and mounted machine guns.... bumping is lame. Those who say it is better are just wasting ammo. I see it as more dangerous as you not holding the weapon in the manner it was meant to. A good shoulder to stock weld with a firm grasp on the weapon. The youtube videos look embarrasing and dangerous compared to what a moderately trained person can do wiht a FA gun. A good machine gunner can learn to be accurate with his bursts. I ran a M249 for years as an 11M Infantryman. I never just held down the trigger and let go... (well once.... . With a controlled burst you provide covering fire, masking fire, accurate suppressing fire as well as multiple shot placement.

    I would rather have a select fire weapon in combat and have the option to suppress with a volley of fire and then go semi for accurate placed shots while my battle buddy covers me. In a team setting you concerve ammo and cover each other well by alternating.
    I remember an arfcom shoot a few years back where one of the people there was successfully bumpfiring from the shoulder. I tried, but didn't have much luck. Sometimes it is all in the technique. As for me semi-auto works just fine.
    "To show you how radical I am, I want carjackers dead. I want rapists dead. I want burglars dead. I want child molesters dead. I want the bad guys dead. No court case. No parole. No early release. I want 'em dead. Get a gun and when they attack you, shoot 'em."
    Ted Nugent - speaking at the NRA convention April 17, 2005

  9. #149
    Cuerno de Chivo chipmechanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willyj View Post
    Good disclaimer and dully noted.

    Thank for your advice though! Pretty sad when you have to make a business just to get a cheaper full auto.... figure that way I could spread the fun though and maybe make some extra coin.


    BTW.... having fired full auto, burst, and mounted machine guns.... bumping is lame. Those who say it is better are just wasting ammo. I see it as more dangerous as you not holding the weapon in the manner it was meant to. A good shoulder to stock weld with a firm grasp on the weapon. The youtube videos look embarrasing and dangerous compared to what a moderately trained person can do wiht a FA gun. A good machine gunner can learn to be accurate with his bursts. I ran a M249 for years as an 11M Infantryman. I never just held down the trigger and let go... (well once.... . With a controlled burst you provide covering fire, masking fire, accurate suppressing fire as well as multiple shot placement.

    Not only that but come on. Back to reality here. None of this shit is ever going to get used in combat. None of it.

    I would rather have a select fire weapon in combat and have the option to suppress with a volley of fire and then go semi for accurate placed shots while my battle buddy covers me. In a team setting you concerve ammo and cover each other well by alternating.

    Now Now. For just having fun ou tin the woods bump fire is cheap and if done properly is safe for the gun and the shooter. It does take a bit of practice and a steady footing. I have also fired a LOT of full auto guns and for the most part you cannot aim for shit on full auto. Guns flying all over the place and you have a real hard time looking through the sights much less actually aiming. In that sense recreational bumpfiring is in some sense more controllable than shoulder firing on regulated full auto . I can walk rounds around quite handily.

    And come back to reality. None of this shit is EVER going to be used in combat. None of it.

    Last edited by chipmechanic; 05-29-2008 at 03:45 PM.



  10. #150
    Gunco Member blackshoesnipe's Avatar
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    Great post!!
    I hope everyone reads it.

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