this is bs with exception of the legal ramifications- there are enough parts in the afterworld to do a full auto conversion with a minimum of fuss and minor mechanical skills and money- there is even a drop in auto sear option(see youtube-ak47 dias)do not file your disconnector or tye shoe strings on your weaponthey won't reliably work
And the terminal event was that it fired out of battery. It blew the dust cover off over my shoulder and blew the bottom of the polymer magazine out. I wasn't hurt at all, but I was pretty concerned. And I was forced to stop shooting for the day, as the bolt carrier was jammed into gas chamber and had to be hammered out.
Though I can't say that I perfectly follow your description of the "firing-out-of-battery" phenomenon (especially since I no longer have the rifle to look at), it sounds like a perfect explanation of what happened to me on my Century GP 1975 rifle.
(And, for the record, I had not even attempted to modify it in any way. I'd only fired about 300-350 rounds through it. And it was virtually brand new.)
I wrote about this on another forum to see if anyone else had ever had a similar problem with this rifle. Here was my description:
Again, I think your description of "firing-out-of-battery" is what happened.
- I just received my GP 1975 about 2 weeks ago. The 1st time I took it out it jammed about every 10 to 15 shots. The guys at the range were watching and said it looked like a problem with the magazine. (It was the California-mandated 10/30 magazine.) There was some play in the magazine.
- Following the 1st day of shooting I tried to field strip and clean the rifle. Somewhere along the way, the lever retaining clip fell out. And then the both the trigger and hammer pins came lose from their seatings in the receiver, causing the hammer and trigger to come out of place. After several hours, I finally got both of them back in place. But both were pins were poorly seated, and dislodged several times, necessitating a whole lot of effort to get the hammer spring and pin back in place, along with the trigger spring and pin back in place (the latter being considerably easier.)
- The bolt action was not smooth, and stuck several times just manually pulling the bolt back. When I took the bolt and bolt carrier-gas piston assembly out, it seemed like the bolt would stick in the bolt carrier.
- It took a total of about 8 hours for me to get the rifle back together after my initial cleaning/field stripping. Much of this was because I didn't know much about rifle cleaning and breakdown. But it was also due to the lever, trigger, and hammer pins being so poorly seated that they fell out while I tried to clean it.
- The 2nd time I took it to the range it again jammed frequently, and at one point the trigger stopped working because the retaining pin on the assembly fell out on the ground. Having wrestled with this rifle for several hours already, I was now familiar with how to get the pin back in. Thus, I broke it down on the range, put the pin back in, and resumed shooting.
- On my next reloading, I picked the rifle up to fire, and the trigger wasn't there! I mean there was NO trigger in the rifle. It had fallen out on the ground, along with the retaining pin.
- I finally did find the triggher (and the retaining pin), broke the gun down, and reassembled it on the range. I resumed firing, and made sure I laid the gun down on the opposite side of the bolt lever, to keep the pins from falling out again.
- After this 2nd round at the range, I bought a new 10-round polymer magazine, which fit the rifle without any play--unlike the used metal 10/30 magazine I'd used previously.
- Prior to my 3rd trip to the range, I taped over the large end of the retaining pins for the trigger and hammer to keep them from falling out.
- On my 3rd trip to the range, though the bolt action still appeared rough, the 1st round jamming that I'd previously been experiencing was resolve. At least initially.
- Then I had some intermittent trouble with bolt sticking when I tried to pull it back. I continued firing when I could get the bolt back.
- And then on the 3rd or 4th round of a clip, a round exploded in the chamber--blowing the dust cover off and over my shoulder and blowing out the bottom of the new polymer magazine.
- And the bolt carrier-gas piston assembly remained jammed into the gas chamber. I couldn't tell if there was still a live round in the chamber or not. I got the guys at the range to help me hammer the bolt back out of the chamber with the gun pointed downrange just in case a live round was still chambered.
- There was no live round in the chamber, but there was part of a casing jammed inside another casing in the chamber. One of the rivets on the right side holding the front trunion to the receiver was gone. I don't know whether it was blown out on the misfire or if it was already missing. The other right-side rivet was beginning to come loose.
- I don't know for certain what happened, but I can guess. Apparently a spent cartridge did not eject, another live round was partially chambered (posterior to where it should have been), and fired through the non-ejected casing.
- I stopped firing after that and took the gun home. Though I took it apart, cleaned it, and reassemble it--the bolt and bolt carrier could not be made to function. When reassembled and bolted back, the bolt-carrier piston assembly jams into the gas chamber and does not come out.
- I can hammer it out, but that really doesn't fix the problem, as it just rejams again on the next bolt-back.
- After 3 trips to the range, and roughly 350 rounds fired, by brand new Century GP 1975 is non-functional.
I'll be getting another AK-type rifle. When I do get it, I'll look closer at all the parts you described. I don't want to have the same thing happen again.
Thanks again for the explanation.
OK, first off if there was a whole casing stuck in the chamber, the bullet tip of the next round would have impacted the rear of the case and failed to chamber with the bolt carrier almost fully rearward. In this position the hammer cannot even fall, let alone hit the firing pin. Even if the round somehow went off in this position, the case would blow out, the pressure simply venting to atmosphere. The bullet would not have been propelled forward. What likely happened is the next to last fired round separated, that is the forward part of the case broke off from the rear and the rear was ejected, leaving the forward part in the chamber. The last round was then fed into the chamber and into the remains of the previous case, causing the new round to stick out farther than normal. If the round fired on chambering, that is you didn't pull the trigger but it fired anyway, then the firing pin likely stuck forward. If you did pull the trigger, a properly functioning rifle would not have fired in this situation. The "tail" on the back of the carrier prevents firing pin contact with the hammer unless the bolt is mostly locked up. Assuming correct headspace, the bolt would have been unlocked if the case was not fully chambered. Unlocked would mean the tail would block the hammer fall.
By "retaining pins" I assume you mean the axis pins that the hammer and trigger rotate on. These pins are secured in the receiver by a retaining wire, commonly called a "shepherd's hook". Just under the large head of these pins is a groove, the spring wire retainer fits down in this groove and keeps the pins from walking out. A common mod is to replace this wire retainer with a couple individual retaining clips available at a hardware store.
That's really scary hearing this.14. ...... One of the rivets on the right side holding the front trunion to the receiver was gone. I don't know whether it was blown out on the misfire or if it was already missing. The other right-side rivet was beginning to come loose.
Glad to hear you weren't hurt
And welcome to the forum, since this is your first post.
"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan
Thanks for the detailed description.
I'm not a gun expert, nor even very knowledgeable about them (Though I did receive a "self-taught" crash course the 1st time I tried to clean my new rifle, when it spontaneously disassembled itself, necessitating my reassembling it if ever wanted to fire it again.)
But your description sounds like a perfect explanation for what happened.
The forward section of the jammed casings is missing its most posterior part. (i.e., the part the firing pin strikes.) And the 2nd casing fragment only has the most posterior part remaining (i.e. the part the firing pin strikes--including a slightly off-center indentation where the firing pin struck it.)
Since the firing pin is contained in the bolt, could this misfire have been caused by a malfunctioning bolt?
The bolt never looked right to me. Though this was supposedly a "new" rifle, the bolt looked like it had an excessive amount of wear for only the 300-350 rounds that I'd fired.
Initially, I wasn't aware that there was a groove it was supposed to fit into. In fact, I didn't even see the grooves, until about the 3rd or 4th time the trigger axis pins became unseated. Even then, it was pretty hard to get the retaining wire into the grooves. Actually, I'm not sure if I ever did get it back in the grooves on both the hammer and trigger.
Do they actually work?
Last edited by griffudd; 05-02-2010 at 03:13 PM. Reason: word choice
If the bolt or firing pin became damaged the pin could stick in a forward position. Dirt and grease inside the FP channel inside the bolt can also cause this. In any event, with missing rivet(s) the rifle is toast anyway and a replcement is in order. Hopefully the next one will work out better.
The retaining clips I use are the little "snowman" shaped wire clips Lowes sells in their misc hardware drawers. I forget the size, take a pin along and check. There is only on that is even close. For most builds, however, I use the Chinese "L" shaped retainer wire that wraps around the safety selector and then goes over and under the pins. For some reason, the Euro retaining wires are too thin and allow the pins to move back and forth, often popping free. The Chines wires are the same size as the groove and fit perfectly, they never come loose unless you want them to. Less likely to get lost than the individual clips.
However, I was thinking of something different--a retainer plate. Something like this
Would something like this work?
Bolt bounce isn't a factor with semi autos, even bump firing you aren't going to be near the cyclic rate of the firearm, so you won't drop the hammer on it before the bolt has settled down.
Something that would look somewhat similar would be a disconnector inconsistently engaging [maybe too weak of a spring or something], it'll leave the hammer down on a live round.