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Thread: A Reminder of Why You Can't and Don't Want to Convert Your AK to full Auto.

  1. #21
    Gunco Member justashooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOID ZODIAN
    1.) I openly stated that my post on bump fire was based on my observations, and that I invited anyone with better information to come forward and share it. This and other forums are about the free exchange of ideas. I am the first to admit that I don't know everything, and you make many good points.

    2.)If indeed bump-firing is simply a form of fast semi-auto fire and the action still has time to close before each shot is fired, then it should be considered as safe as any other semi-auto fire.

    3.)I think it would have been more useful to all if you had used the rest of your post to go into more detail about how the balance of tension and recoil work instead of simply using your space to attack my credibility. Usually, when people make accusations, they see guilt in everyone else for what they do themselves, and I believe that this is the case here.

    4.)I believe that every single one of us can learn things from these boards as well as contribute to them, and attacking someone just because you disagree with them is not only childish, but it serves to make one suspicious of YOUR credibility.

    5.)I believe that your answer is, in fact, a good one for the most part. You state that you own Polish and Hungarian AK's with machining of the highest quality. Do the fire control parts also have an interrelationship of the highest quality? Would you give us a more detailed explanation of the relationship between balance and recoil?

    6.)You are correct in your assessment that out of battery fire is sometimes due to sticky firing pins, but there are many, many other potential causes. My earlier assessment of timing problems is in fact, correct, and I draw my information on this matter from sources besides my own "speculation."

    (I am actively searching my library for which articles mention the timing problem; if I find them I will quote them at a later date).

    7.)Judging by your first post on this thread about how easy it is to convert an AK to full auto, plus the ever-increasing hostility of your tone, I suspect the truth is that I have struck a nerve by providing you with that little seed of doubt that your dream of full auto is unsafe or a "no-no." It is true what you say about a type 7 SOT, but that is beside the point. This thread is not meant to be a criticism of anyone properly trained and licensed to convert an AK to full auto. It is meant to address those individuals who seek to do it illegally and without the proper know-how. Have I struck a nerve there also, justashooter?

    8.)As for my excess verbage: no one held a gun to your head and forced you to read my thread. I wrote what I wrote, and I welcome honest and polite discussions and even disagreements. That is what these forums are all about. For persons such as you who find long threads difficult to follow, I would suggest you stick to shorter ones in the future.

    9.)As to the suggestion that I spend more time studying, this is good advice for anyone; I suggest that you too spend more time studying, particularly with regards to the fundamentals of spelling and grammar.

    10.)Your thoughts on building a certain kind of blind to wait for a roaring lion are interesting as well; there seems to be no shortage of "clouding things in mystery", for which you accused me. Just what does this have to do with a thread dealing with full-auto anyway?

    11.)Perhaps you should go to Africa to hunt lions and let someone who knows how to capitalize the first word at the beginning of a sentence type your future replies for you. That way you can remain a private fool instead of one whose ignorance has just become a public spectacle on the internet.
    1.) how humble of you to admit that you are not the sole source of truth. your statement reminds me of clinton's "i accept full responsibility...". it was a sham with which to dress untruth, to divert attention from the matter at hand.

    2.) physics is a study in universal constants regarding the interaction of mass and force that may be reduced by definition in mathematical expression. designers of autorifles have been manipulating physics principles for over 100 years. you strike me as well enough educated that i would have expected in you an understanding at even a basic level.

    3.) the balance is within your control.
    a shooter who desires to bump must choose a rifle which is balanced in terms of the weight of the gun vs recoil generated by the firing of it's cartridge. the ak-47 is nearly ideal in this respect. recoil impulse generated is sufficient to force the gun backward far enough to disengage the trigger from a static trigger finger and allow the sear to reset, even against the forward tension of the off hand/arm. the operator's arm is in flexion against muscle tension enough that when the recoil is reduced the rifle is automatically bounced forward, and the trigger again comes into contact with the static finger. forward momentum of the bolt and carrier, and balance of the rifle itself are also factors in this simple mathematical equation.
    think of your left arm as a rubber band, and your trigger finger as a fencepost. it's sort of a tai chi thing. manipulation of the body is possible thru subjugation of the will.

    the remainder of your 3rd point is with concern to the psychology of "projection". i was partnered with a psychologist during her graduate studies, tutoring her to an advanced degree. i have no desire to demonstrate my understanding of the principles of human psychology to you in any way less subtle than that which i am already employing.

    4.) learning is a lifelong process. you should keep at it. my credibility is already established.

    5.) kalashnikov designed a rifle that could be built by women with steam hammers and used by children in the congo.
    polish people are sticklers for detail. they just don't quit till it's right. hungarians are similar, except for that damned magyar, which, interestingly enough, is very closely related to basque, in a linguistic sense. these two languages are discrete from the remainder of european speech.

    6.) statistical probability being what it is...

    7.) i have not been hostile with you. i have merely stated truth. the hostility you infer is a manifestation of insecurities within your persona. i feel no need to aggress, but have not lost the skills accrued in younger days. if i were to engage you, you would be destroyed.

    i do feel a need to limit the damage your insecurities inflict upon others.

    if it were not for the injury you do this avocation, i would not have engaged you. i am a lion in this world. you are old enough to procreate, but not mature enough to stand over a pride.

    8.) "I wrote what I wrote," and we read it. my concern is for those who might have thought you knew what you were talking about. time is a finite resource. i spend just enough of it here to limit the damage you accomplish thru disinformation, whether it be deliberate, or simply thru ignorance.

    9.) tell me, had you an education in latin, would you understand my writing? having read churchill's 6 volumes regarding the second war, or well's "outline of history", would you understand my perspective? surely my style is a little obscure, and my learning antiquated by choice. language is ordered by it's day, and yet i bridge the chasms of the ages with alacrity.

    10.) you are either a fool, or a dangerous youth in a man's world.

    unfortunately our government employs young men in the pursuit of individuals who have violated the boundary of law. such work is better fit for old men, who have a little wisdom. old men know how to wait for an oponnent before moving the first peice. if you would like to talk about this privately, write me directly. maybe we should meet. if you are who i think you are, you will run away. if you are who i am concerned you may be, you will run to me, and i will be your friend.

    11.) there is nothing like wandering the streets of a 3rd world city late at night, and realising you are not sure if the two men discretely following in the shadows are there to protect you, or simply awaiting an opportunity to kill you quietly. you are grateful, though, that they allowed you a few moments in the arms of a young woman who's name you knew not, who groaned in passion in a language you could not speak.
    round the corner, then. fly away! quickly! into the taxi and off before they overtake you at a run...shouting out the window, "look for me tomorrow!...try and catch me then, if you can!"

  2. #22
    Gunco Member gp35fn's Avatar
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    ZOID ZODIAN-good topic about why not to convert your AKs to full auto-and your comments on bump firing-both are quite relevant here-justashooter your definitely a legend in your own mind-luckily it will probably just stay there-get a life, find a girl, chill out...
    Last edited by gp35fn; 03-28-2004 at 06:38 PM.

  3. #23
    Roswell UFO survivor ZOID ZODIAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justashooter
    ...the balance is within your control.
    a shooter who desires to bump must choose a rifle which is balanced in terms of the weight of the gun vs recoil generated by the firing of it's cartridge. the ak-47 is nearly ideal in this respect. recoil impulse generated is sufficient to force the gun backward far enough to disengage the trigger from a static trigger finger and allow the sear to reset, even against the forward tension of the off hand/arm. the operator's arm is in flexion against muscle tension enough that when the recoil is reduced the rifle is automatically bounced forward, and the trigger again comes into contact with the static finger. forward momentum of the bolt and carrier, and balance of the rifle itself are also factors in this simple mathematical equation.
    think of your left arm as a rubber band, and your trigger finger as a fencepost. it's sort of a tai chi thing. manipulation of the body is possible thru subjugation of the will.
    This answer is closer to the information that you could have provided in the first place, instead of turning this into a personal attack against me. You state that you have the evidence that I do not know what I am talking about, and yet in this, your third opportunity, you still have not offered any explanation other than that you are right and I am wrong. Your detailed explanation of how bump firing works is interesting and and sounds reasonable, but you do not explain how it is safe to do so. I'll ask again, isn't this practice of bump-firing a dangerous game that could result in an out-of-battery fire, or is the action still given plenty of time to cycle fully before the next round is fired?

    i have not been hostile with you.
    It is not just my opinion; read the other replies to this thread. Other readers have obviously picked up on your hostile tone as well. Not only have you been and continue to be hostile, but I have no choice but to consider some of your thread about "meeting me" and that you will "destroy me" a veiled threat. I therefore have no choice but to report your post to the moderators.

    Your repeated references to my either being or not being who you think I am are irrelevant. What IS relevant is that evidently to desire some sort of private meeting with me in order to do me some sort of harm. Your sentence that were I to "engage" you, you would destroy me is as close to a threat of personal violence against me than I have heard from anyone in years.

  4. #24
    Roswell UFO survivor ZOID ZODIAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justashooter
    unfortunately our government employs young men in the pursuit of individuals who have violated the boundary of law. such work is better fit for old men, who have a little wisdom. old men know how to wait for an oponnent before moving the first peice. if you would like to talk about this privately, write me directly. maybe we should meet. if you are who i think you are, you will run away. if you are who i am concerned you may be, you will run to me, and i will be your friend.
    While wanting to give you the benefit of the doubt for such a cryptic paragraph, I can only surmise that you think me some sort of government agent trolling for violators by participating in these forums.

    You are entitled to think what you wish of course, and I suspect that even a denial on my part will not satisfy what you have already decided in your mind.

    With your other reference to "destroying me" and your desire to paint yourself as some sort of veteran who has been in battle, I can only interpret your offer to meet me as a way move this fight into an arena in which you feel vastly superior. I have no doubt that were I to meet you I would probably be found with a fatal wound the next day.

    I suspect you tossed in the part about us being friends as a way to soften the suspicion that you are up to no good. So, no, we will not meet. I have reported your post to the moderators and I believe that they will better be able to determine whether your post is a veiled threat of violence or merely the rantings of someone who wishes the public to see how "powerful" he is.

  5. #25
    RIP Sangrun Hunter's Avatar
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    I think we've had enough witty jabbing of each other's egos here gentlmen.

    Zoid had some good points and he did state it was opinion. Sarcasim aside we need not pummel each other with offhand remarks.

    Be polite everyone and remember we don't need this place to become like another place.

    Thank you all for your courtesy.

    Sang

  6. #26
    RIP Sangrun Hunter's Avatar
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    10.) you are either a fool, or a dangerous youth in a man's world.

    unfortunately our government employs young men in the pursuit of individuals who have violated the boundary of law. such work is better fit for old men, who have a little wisdom. old men know how to wait for an oponnent before moving the first peice. if you would like to talk about this privately, write me directly. maybe we should meet. if you are who i think you are, you will run away. if you are who i am concerned you may be, you will run to me, and i will be your friend.
    Justashooter,

    I'm not sure what to think about this? Please just let it go, okay?

    All here need to let it go.

  7. #27
    Roswell UFO survivor ZOID ZODIAN's Avatar
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    If anyone has some good solid information that explains why bump-firing is safe, then by all means, share it.

    We are all learners on this board, and I am curious as to how bump firing works myself.

    I've said that it seems to me that it would be as unsafe as filing down the disconnector. If that is wrong, then not only would I like to find that out, but I'll start bump-firing too!

    I would love for someone to come forward and say something like, "We've tested this in front of a high-speed camera and the blah-blah is happening so such-and-such is true."

    I think this would be valuable to everyone who has been following this thread.

  8. #28
    Administrator sniper69's Avatar
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    Last range trip I was video taping a friend of mine that was shooting his SAR1 and he shot a few rounds rapidly. The parts seem to move quite quick. Maybe one of the videos floating around the net of people bump firing would be the best way to see if there were any issues. Personally, I bump fire at least once a range trip and see no problems with unusual wear of parts, etc. I am using a GTech FCG (the G2 from tapco is the same design). With the original chinese FCG it was harder to bump than with the US FCG. Last July or August, at an arfcom local shoot in Birmingham I watched some with AR's bump firing and also there was a gentleman there that had a WASR10 hicap which had a redstar arms FCG and he bumped a 75 round drum in 3 long bursts . I have also witnessed a WASR10 (in original low cap configuration), that had a Romanian FCG and the owner of the rifle was able to bump fire while the rifle was shouldered with better results than when he bump fired shooting from the side. Just seeing the 10 round mags empty quick made me chuckle and afterwards talking - I think he secretly wanted some 30 round mags).

  9. #29
    Gunco Member justashooter's Avatar
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    you guys just kill me!


  10. #30
    Gunco Veteran gunnysmith's Avatar
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    The next time you're on I-90 heading west, and cross into WYOMING let me know.
    I'll tell you what ammo to bring.
    I have always enjoyed the smiles after the first time on full auto.

    Hint, .22LR 7.62 NATO, .45ACP, 9 mm
    Any questions?
    Constitution Or Bust
    Ron Paul 2012

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