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AK 47 WASR 10" 7.62x39 to 223

10K views 97 replies 7 participants last post by  Coils 
#1 · (Edited)
I am looking at this AK 47. It was at a good price and it comes with a lot of stuff including the original cleaning kit with oil can and bayonet. I would like to know what it takes to convert the 7.62x39 to the 223. It is a Romanian build. I have a Romanian build on a Hesse receiver, can I move the barrel, receiver and bolt to the AK 47 WASR 10?
 
#31 ·
Dunno., in general barrels are relatively soft. I'm not sure that US barrels are heat treated at all and simply button rifles from alloy steel stock barrel blanks.
Hammer forged barrels tend to be harder from the process. Yugo barrels seem softer that hammer forged Romanian and others.
 
#34 ·
Yep, trunion to barrel, nothing I would call a bullet guide. It still won't fire the rounds. The ones that go bang have a nice dent in the primer, the ones that don't go bang have a little tiny dint or no dent at all, just a mark on the primer. I've cleaned the bolt and firing pin, and ground a little off the upper part of the hammer to keep it from bottoming out on the bolt above the firing pin. Nothing works.
 
#35 ·
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Here are a couple of pictures of the magazine, trunion and the breach. Four rounds, one on the right that fired, deep impact on primer, other thee did not fire, second from right tried twice two small dints third and forth round barely marked. Ammo factory Remington PMP. Also had a box of reloaded 5.56 thad were resized and reloaded 233 same results.
 
#36 ·
in picture two it appears that there is a bullet guide, its flat, suppose to be flat without a better pic its hard to tell

funky primer hits
the primer on the far left looks like its because of a overtight headspace and the two in the middle look about right, but you say they were hit a second time, sounds like the bolt and carrier are not going to battery everytime or when it feels like it
the left one is a little strike bolt not going far enough???

if you take off the recoil spring and work the bolt does the bolt and carrier progress without any stoppages or heavy rubbing?? , does the bolt lock up fully??

I would not do to much filing till you work this out or take it apart

or take Big guns advice and not shoot it
 
#37 ·
i beleive bi gun is right, I'm just determined to find out what is keeping it from firing. The go-no-go guages from Brownell seemed to say the go- no gospaces were ok although a little tight. When I drop one of the missfired rounds in the bolt ejector and let the bolt into the groove it does not rotate down like it should, so I'm guessing the go is too tight. So that would indicate a barrel removal and reheadspace. Now that is just what I wanted to do. That is going to bge so much fun it should be illegal. Thanks guys, you have been great help, I was thinking the missfires were from to much headspace.
Sprat, you are right there is a bullet guide in there, I thought a bullet guide should direct the bullet to the barrel opening. I can't see what this one even does, is it the right one or is it a 7.62 guide? The bolt runs smooth since I took a little off the hammer. Before bolt would drag on the hammer.
I have had it appart ecept the barrel and trunion which is all welded to the receiver.
 
#38 ·
take a good picture of in front of the barrel.

so your saying its tight on the head space?

Is the hammer spring Ok an not broken or installed wrong been heated up by some idiot when it was demilled ? If your getting primer strikes an the bolts are rotated in it should go bang .

take a good picture of the fcg as well. unless the bolt is hittin ght tang on the trunion or some really weird thing it shoud shoot .

Id dam sure wear safety classes .
 
#39 ·
is the firing pin protusion ok an is it free in the bolt ?

btw if the head space is a little tight that's ok as long as the round chambers an the bolt rotates in it should shoot . the carrier should be touching the trunion on the LH side when its ready to fire .

as far as feeding is the mag lips up against the under side of the rails ? does the mag have up an down play ? what mag is it ? if you got a Galil mag its going to hang to low on a Rommy 223 trunion. take pictures of every thing you got .

are you certain the spring is in correctly ? if the pin is ok an has enough protrusion an not rusted in an the hammer spring is good an installed correctly an the round chambers an the carrier hits the trunion an the hammer hits the pin squarely it will go bang.

how many mags do you have ?
 
#40 ·
the bullet guide appears nornal if the pic is correct, a 223 guide would look the same but thicker, while most 5.45 guides have two notches on either side, but 223 rounds will feed with 5.45 bullet guides

ok seems it is a headspace problem, I also bet that bolt needs a lite filing or a stone on the lugs, it should fit in and out by hand without the carrier and with the carrier
 
#41 ·
Parts, spring, trigger, all lower parts look new and well oiled. I can drop the bolt in by itself and it moves smooth and free in the carrier and out. The firing pin is free but nothing sticks out until you push hard on the strike area. The go guage goes in and the bolt rotates down til the lug is just about touching the trunion. If I put a good round in the bolt and drop it in the bolt does not rotate in without help. The magazines all fit in snug, no play, they go up and sit against the lower sides of the lower rails, the hammer spring has three wraps on each side and looks good. I have two European 30 rd mags, one like new composit mag made in Bulgaria and two 20rd Tapco 233 plastic mags. The latter three work good when it fires. Throws the empties about 20 feet behind and to my right.
My wife's family is here for 3 days and I've just been told to stop this so it may be 3 days before I get more pictures taken. Thanks a lot for the help.
 
#43 ·
I heard to day a lot of the hesse guns that were wled build were made from milled recvier stubs milled down to work like stamped trunions yours dot look like that but who knows .

do you have a small stem or large stem bolt? all the Rommy 223 blts Ihave ever seen are not spring loaded an the pin should move under gravity . an should also be shot with ammo with harder primers to prevent slam fires .

I think you gun don't go bang because the pin is sticking .
 
#44 ·
OP has a 7.62 kit on a .223 receiver according to his description.
+1 on disassembling the bolt for inspection and cleaning.
Headspace sounds a bit tight but not the culprit as long as the bolt goes into battery/lockup. Lapping the rear of the bolt lugs can fix any minor binding since you are within .001" +/- of fitment. May not be necessary.
 
#45 ·
WASR AK47

here are a few more pictures. I'm going to have to have help, how do you disassemble the bolt. mine has a spring in there holding the firing pin away from battery. You have to push hard on the end of the bolt stem in order to feel it move and I can't even pust it out far enough to see the pin protrude.

There are two little half moon holes on the stem end. looks like two small pins on the firing pin end.
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#50 ·
This will help you get the bolt apart. You might need to tap it though, I haven't seen too many push out as easily as his did.
AK 47 Bolt disassembly and reassembly - YouTube
That helps a lot. At Least I know which pin will let the firing pin come out. I think I see how it comes apart now. You can see the dent in the firing pin head in the pictures. I think biggun is right, it is stuck.
 
#48 ·
Here are the rest of the pictures. The last three are the european mag that won't let the bolt move back to load a round.the mag that has a 5 and "made in Bulgaria"on it is the one that works fine when it fires.
 

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#52 ·
your showing a 7.62x39 mag the 30 rounder an what appears to be a bulgy 223 mag the short one

the steel curved 7.62x39 mag will not work correctly if at all for this gun an im surprised it even fits. sell it or trade it or send it to me LOL

is this gun a 223 or a 7.62x39?????? Im assuming its 223. two of the mags are 223

there are no spring loaded 7.62 x 39 firning pin bolts I know of. an you appear to have one so its a 223 .

You have to push hard on the end of the bolt stem in order to feel it move and I can't even pust it out far enough to see the pin protrude.


the bolt you have appears to be a bulgy 223 bolt large stem an spring loaded . the stem should be about" .430 dia . I would call the pin spring pressure medium to light I can push my pin in with a finger with out any strain if its HARD to push as you describe then maybe it the wrong spring or full of rust or some thing but it should not be hard to push . it only needs to be hard enough to keep the pin off the primer during a the return cycle .
that has

I can't even pust it out far enough to see the pin protrude.[/

edit
I JUST PULLED MY 223 TARGET RIFLE APART TO CONFIRM THIS IT HAS A BULGY 223 SPRING LOADED BOLT .
IF YOU BUT THE STEM IN OF YOUR BOLT ON A HARD FALT SURFACE AN PUSH DOWN SO THE STEM AN FIRING PIN ARE FLUSH YOU SHOULD HAVE AROUND .030" OF PIN PROTRUSION MINE HAS EXACTLY .030" WITH 5000 ROUNDS ON IT . IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY OR VERY LITTEL THIS IS WHY YOU GUN DOES NOT FIRE. IT MUST HAVE PROTRUTION !!!!!!!!! THERE ARE NO MAYBE OR KIND OF HERE TO BE RIGHT IT NEEDS PROTRUSION. IT TAKES ABOUT 6 OR 7 POUNDS OF PRESSURE TO PUSH IT .

ALL AK FIRING PINS SHOULD HAVE PROTRUSION . YOU MIGHT GET A FIRING DUE TO THE INERTIA OF THE PIN BUT ITS NOT A INERTIA PIN SYSTEM THE HAMMER IS SUSPOSED TO DRIVE THE PIN INTO THE PRIMER . !

IF YOUS DONT PROTRUDE ITS BROKEN OR WORN OUT BUT ITS NOT RIGHT I PROMISE YOU .

it looks like its MAYBE using a 7.62x39 carrier that is to wide for a normal 223 mag an that's why it dosent pass through the short bulgy mag. the area of the carrier that passes through the mag lips needs to be narrow enough to not hit the mag lips. its hard to tell from the pictures just take the mag an see if the carrer is to wide or not . a standard 7.62x39 carrier will need modifcations in most cases to work.

if both mags are bulgy 223 they should work. I don't know what the larger plastic one is ? a galil mag may or may not work as is if it dosent you can ada little weld to the front lug to raise the mag up.

on a 223 its imperative the mags are up high in the receiver an likely touching the lower rails . if there not the bolt will ride over or lose the round part way through an also a low mag the rounds will not feed correctly . I just went through all this on a 223 Weiger clone.

there is nothing romanion abut this gun that I see . maybe a trunion..

THE BARREL WELDED TO THE TRUNION SCARES TO ME . BARRELS ARE NOT HEAT TREATED HARD THAT IS FOR A REASON . THE WELD HOWEVER WILL MAKE THE AREA HARD AN POSSABLEY BRITTLE AN IT COUD FAIL . ITS WELDED IN THE WORST POSSABLE PLACE DIRECTLY OVER THE CHMABER AN TO THE POINT THAT ALL THE HARMONICS START FROM BASICALY ITS WELDED FROM THE POINT THE BARREL BENDS FROM AS THE BARREL WIPS DURING THE CYCLE. THE CHAMBER SEES OVER 50,000 PSI AN ITS WELDED ON IN A HIGH PRESSURE HIGH FLEX AN POSSABLE HIGH TENSIL STRETCH AREA IF THE WELD IS ACTUALY HOLDING IT IN. THERE HAS TO BE A ISSUE WITH THE BARREL PIN FOR THEM TO NEED TO WELD IT . SELL THE TRUNION TO SOME ONE DOING A PISTOL CAL BLOW BACK .

THERE HAVE BEEN PEOLE HURT WIOTH THESE GUNS ! THE MOST COMMON EXAMPLE I CAN LIKELY DOCUMNET IS THE REAR TRUNION COMING UN WELDED AN YOU GETTING A FACE FULL OF BOLT AN CARRIER . THE REAR TRUNION CONNECTION SEES MORE STRESS THAN THE FRONT AS THE CARRER PUSHES AGAINST IT THROUGH THE SPRING AN MIGHT EVEN BOTTOM OUT ON IT . ANY WAY YOU HAVE 4 REALLY CRAPY WELDS GEPPING IT FROM DRIVING INTO YOUR RIGHT EYE! EVENIF THE BOLT DOSENT GET YOU THE COMPRESSED SPRING AS THE CARRER COMES BACK WILL. AGAIN GUYS HAVE BEEN SERIOUSLY HURT FROM REAR TRUNION SEPERATION . IF THE FRONT LUGS FAIL FROM A HEAT TREAT DAMAGE ISSUE YOU MIGHT BE KILLED .

PERSONALY I WOULD NOT USE THE GUN . I WOULD NOT LET MY KID STAND ANY WERE NEAR IT .

THE ONLY GUNS YOU WILL SEE STUFF WELDED TO OF ANY QUALITY FROM A MANFACTURER WILL BE THINGS LKE BREAK OPENS WITH A LUG WELDED TO THE BARREL . THOSE ARE WELDED UNDER VERY CAREFULL CONDITIONS AN ARE HEAT TREATED PROPERLY . H&R HANDI RIFLE LUGS ARE WELDED AN THE PROCESS IS A SECRET THAT THEY WILL NOT DISCUSS.

IF IT WERE MINE ID REBARREL IT ON A NEW TRUNION AN USE A NEW BARREL. ID MILL OUT THE SPOT WELDS AN FIX THE REAR TRUNION PROPERLY AN ID ADD A NEW RECVIER WHILE I WAS AT IT . ITS LIKE A ROCK CHIP IN YOUR WINDSHIELD YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN OR IF ITS GOING TO LET GO.

iF I DID FOUR SPOT WELDS ON A HARDEND STEEL ATTACHING .040" SHEET METAL TO THE OBJECT THAT WAS NOT PREHEATED PROPERLY TO WELD AN THEN SAID OK PUT YOUR FACE 4 INCHED IN FRONT OF IT WHILE I HIT IT WITH A SLEDGE HAMMER AN ITS GOING TO HIT YOU SQUARE IN THE FACE IF MY 4 CRAPPY ALREADY AN NOT EVEN HAVING THE TWO PARRENT METALS TOUCHING THAT ARE 3/16" EACH OBVOUOSLY POORELY DONE WELDS FAIL? YOU WOULD RUN AT THE IDEA OF DOING IT. HOW EVER ITS EXACTLY WHAT YOUR DOING WITH THE WELDED IN REAR TRUNION AN YOU WANT TO DO IT AS FASST AS YOU CAN PULL THE TRIGGER .

THAT IS AS HONEST AS I CAN SAY IT . YOU REALLY NEED TO THINK ABIUT IT AN HOW MUCH YOU TRUST THE GUYS WHO COBBLED THIS GUN TOGETHER AN THOSE WELDS AN THE METAL THATS BEEN AFFECTED.
 
#55 ·
I wil disassemble the bolt clean it put it back together and test fire the rifle held by sandbags and string the trigger from 15 feet away. If it fires it's going to come apart and and maybe be parted out or rebuilt. Have a good friend and a good machine shop. Depends on if there are enough good part left to make it worth rebuilding.

Thank you, you may be responsible for saving me for another day of shooting. My grandson, Afgan vet wore his body armor to fire it at arms length. Once was enough for him. I will let you know, I think the hammer end of the firing pin has such a dent in it now that it may not be any good either now.
 
#56 ·
I don't know if this will help more with the bolt or not? There's 2 pages
Romanian Kalashnikov Rifles


And I might be mistaken, but I think you have the wrong bullet guide installed?
Scroll down to the bottom of the first page. Your guide looks like a 5.45 guide, the 223 guide is like a ramp.
http://www.dinzagarms.com/downloads/bg_install.pdf
This site has the best pics, I found a few others but the pics are poor

And not to be a smart ass, but is this a 223 or 5.45 gun? Since it's on a 7.62 receiver, it might be a different caliber then you think, I never tried to put those two calibers in the other chamber to see if they fit, I might be wrong even suggesting this
 
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