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AK 47 WASR 10" 7.62x39 to 223

10K views 97 replies 7 participants last post by  Coils 
#1 · (Edited)
I am looking at this AK 47. It was at a good price and it comes with a lot of stuff including the original cleaning kit with oil can and bayonet. I would like to know what it takes to convert the 7.62x39 to the 223. It is a Romanian build. I have a Romanian build on a Hesse receiver, can I move the barrel, receiver and bolt to the AK 47 WASR 10?
 
#57 ·
I looked at the pic he posted sure it did not look like a 5.45 bullet guide but the pic is not clear, the only problem with using a 7.62 receiver with a 223 bolt is the ejector maybe mag well opening otherwise this should not affect the functioning problems this kit is having
also the bullet guide whether 223 or 5.45 would work and again not be the cause for the function problems

some of the 223 mags have narrow spaces between the lips ( like women) this could cause a bolt hangup, I have a bolt ( 223) that did that with wieger mags I just trimmed the sides of the cartridge pickup lug on the bottom
 
#58 ·
Got the bolt pulled apart. There was a mess of small copper or brass chips keeping it from going forward. note the picture attached. Close as I can tell the bolt stem is .43". My good cal. is in my other shop. Once the brass crap was cleaned out the firing pin would go through prob a little more than .03" but again my guages are in the other shop. So the firing problem is resolved.
The bullet guide is rounded but to my eye it looks like a rounded 7.65-39. There is no ramp that is visible. The carrier passes freely through all the mags I have in the picture but when the mags are loaded with 3 or 4 rounds the carrirer will not pass over the loaded rounds in the 30 round mag. The rounds are binding in the mag, that's what is stopping the carrier it works fine in the other 223 and 5.56x39 mags.
I have come to the conclusion that the 30 rd mags I bought (from CTD) a year ago were bad mags. If you load more than 5 rounds the bottom round binds front to back and jams the mag.
The 20 rnd mags feed the first by hand but the second hits the barrel face below the chamber and jams. The bullet guide is .125" thick on the mag edge then forward there is an indentation .125 " from the back edge.

24 IS STAMPED ON THE front TRUNION.
 

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#59 ·
looks like a 223 bullet guide, but 7.62 and 223 guides look alike, as long as its feeding normal then you are good to go
also those mags sound like 5.45mm mags converted to 223, besides I do not use or recommend cheapy mags, especially a year ago when mags were plentiful and cheaper than now, CTD mags sounds like promags if so they are junk
 
#61 ·
AK 47 WASR 10" 7.62x39 to 223

well I know where the brass chips in the bolt came from. fired three rounds, everyother one fired. Where the firing pin hit the round is now a hole with pieces of primer missing, exploded backward into the bolt. The shells that did not fire have small dimples in them, second picture. See pictures.
either the primers are bad, the fireing pin is sticking a hole in the primer or the pressures are too high. The ammo is PMP, made by PRETORIA METAL PRESSINGS A DIVISION OF DENEL (PTY) LTD REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA.
223 REMINGTON.

Has anyone tryed to make a rivet sqeezer by grinding out the jaws on a 48" bolt cutter. I have one I never use anymore. I have several rivet tools I used when farming to rerivet sickle sections on sickles. They form good round heads.
 

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#70 ·
the carrirer will not pass over the loaded rounds in the 30 round mag
AGAIN THE 30 ROUNDER IS A 7.62X39 MAG IT WILL NOT WORK FOR THIS GUN ITS THE WRONG MAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE ROUNDS ARE LIKLEY BINDING UP ON HTE FOLLOWER STOP . OR JUST BINDING UP . SIMPLY OPUT ITS THE WRONG MAG DONT TRY TO USE IT IN 223 .

THE PIERCED PRIMERS ARE DUE TO SEVRAL REASONS . THE MAIN ONW IS THE AMMO IS LAODED TO HOT AN THE PRIMER IS TO SOFT . I GET THE SAME THING WITH SOME 5.56 NATO IN MY VARMINT BUILD . I LASO GET PRIMERS IMPACTS BLOWING BACK IF I USES CERTAIN SOFT PRIMMERS WITH THE bulgy BOLT THE PIN HOLE IS PRTTY BIG AN LIKEY ADDS TOT HE PROBLEM.

DONT SHOOT THAT AMMO ANY MORE . AN EVEN IF TIS STAMPED 223 IT MIGTH BE 5.45 NATO OR THE BULLET SEATING IS TO LONG FOR YOUR GUN . WHO KNOWS ?

I KNEW YOU HAD A FIRING PIN ISSUE WHEN YOU SAIT IT WAS HARD TO PUSH AN DIDNT EXTEND. ;)
 
#72 ·
AGAIN THE 30 ROUNDER IS A 7.62X39 MAG IT WILL NOT WORK FOR THIS GUN ITS THE WRONG MAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE ROUNDS ARE LIKLEY BINDING UP ON HTE FOLLOWER STOP . OR JUST BINDING UP . SIMPLY OPUT ITS THE WRONG MAG DONT TRY TO USE IT IN 223 .

They are junked. I only paid $7 for them.


THE PIERCED PRIMERS ARE DUE TO SEVRAL REASONS . THE MAIN ONW IS THE AMMO IS LAODED TO HOT AN THE PRIMER IS TO SOFT . I GET THE SAME THING WITH SOME 5.56 NATO IN MY VARMINT BUILD . I LASO GET PRIMERS IMPACTS BLOWING BACK IF I USES CERTAIN SOFT PRIMMERS WITH THE bulgy BOLT THE PIN HOLE IS PRTTY BIG AN LIKEY ADDS TOT HE PROBLEM.

DONT SHOOT THAT AMMO ANY MORE . AN EVEN IF TIS STAMPED 223 IT MIGTH BE 5.45 NATO OR THE BULLET SEATING IS TO LONG FOR YOUR GUN . WHO KNOWS ?

I KNEW YOU HAD A FIRING PIN ISSUE WHEN YOU SAIT IT WAS HARD TO PUSH AN DIDNT EXTEND. ;)
Yea, it's a bitch To get the firing pin held in far enough to get the holding pin back in. Didn't get my thumb on it when I was taking the pin out and it shot across the room.
The PMP ammo is labeled 3.56 g (55 gr) .223 Remington.
Two of the rounds that didn't fire, when laid out with the others, had the bullet pushed back in the case, all that was showing was the tapered part.
I don't know where my buddy bought this stuff. I have about 120 rounds. Would I dare shoot it in another gun?
This gun is so screwed up I don't even think I could rebuild any part of it and feel comfortable it would be safe. Ever casing has a dent in the side .75" back from the front after firing the reloads. The primer impact has a raged ring around the firing pin strike point. I think I'm going to cut it in half and sell it as misc parts.
 
#71 ·
inspect the other rounds carefull. if the the primers are starting to come bac e instad of a dent then its still got issues . the primer should just have a dent .

I hand load an im at max when the primers have a dent with a ring coming back around the dent .

the barrel being all welded to crap may have shrunk the bore or screwed it up an be causing high pressure . the weld is right abut were the bullet is or in front of it . no way that much welding was done with out affecting the bore.

the gun is making high pressure with the one ammo you need to look the other stuff over really close .
 
#73 ·
THE SIDE DENTS IN THE AMMO IS NORMAL AN NO BIG DEAL UNLESS YOU RELOAD . I HAVE A FIX FOR THAT. THE CASE IS HITTTING THE DUST COVER ON THE WAY OUT .

Would I dare shoot it in another gun?
TRY IT IN A BOLT ACTION OR AR.

THE DENT AN RING PRIMER SITUATION IT PRETTY COMMON ON A BULGY BOLT . I NEED TO COMPARE PIN HOLE SIZE TO A AR OR BOLT ACTION SOME DAY . I CANT SEEM TO RUN MAXIMUM HAND LOADS ON MY GUNS WITH THE SAME BOLT UNLESS IM RUNNING HARDENED NATO TYPE PRIMERS LIKE FEDERAL SELLS IF YOU CAN FIND THEM . IM AT LIKE A GRAIN UNDER MAX ON ANY LOAD WITH CERTAIN PRIMERS .

THE TRUNION BEING WELDED IS THE UNKNOW FOR ME . YOU COULD LIKELY REPLACE MOST OF WHAT YOU NEED FOR ABOUT $300 OR LESS . iM FIGURING $100 FOR A BARREL OR SO, $100 FOR A TRUNION AN $100 FOR A RECIVER . TYE RECVIER YOU HAVE WORKS BUT ITS PRETTY ROUGH.

SOME GUYS WILL TELL YOU TO JUST RUN IT AN IT MGHT NEVER FAIL I JUST WOULD NOT TRUST MY LIFE ON IT .
 
#77 ·
The rounds are hitting the face of the barrel when loading. The "made in Bulgaria" magazine kicks the shell to center and they go in the chamber good, the two Tapco, Bulgaria 20 round mags don't have the same little raised area at the front side that kicks the round in. The rounds hit the barrel at about 5 or 7 o'clock.
 
#78 ·
I have found some barrels but want a new one, will a
(Bulgarian Krinkov barrel for 5.56x45 (.223 caliber). Hammer forged chrome lined New pre-ban 23mm barrel) work on this gun, I have my name in to get a 7.62x39 100% receiver and hope I can save my trunion on the old welded up one.
 
#80 ·
Why do some barrels have left hand threads and where would you find the flash hiders or brakes for left hand threads. I found a lot of info in the library but nothing on the left hand threads.
almost all AKs have lh threads the weiger is an exception . some cugir 223,s had 1/2 rh htreads.

the 223 is a odd ball in the ak world there is no standard every country did there own thing as far as mags an other stuff.

you should get a 223 or 5.45 recvier if your going to build a 223.. the ejectr tip needs to be longer than a 7.62x39 recvier .
 
#81 ·
I can only find 7.62x39 receivers, the only 5.45 receivers I find are for the ak74.
I am thinking with all the hassles building a 223, maybe I'll rebuild to a 7.62x39.
I am getting an AR15 for the 223 and the more I read about the 308 the more I like it. I have to replace the receiver and barrel anyway and a 7.65 bolt face doesn't look hard to come by. Would there be anything else I would need?
 
#82 ·
you can use a 5.45 receiver or 7.62 rails to make a 223 the ejector needs to be trimmed and re-heat treated with a map torch
the only diffence in a 7.62 or 5.45 or 223 receiver is the mag opening and the tip of the ejector
 
#83 ·
The trigger guard came off easy, tapped the inside rivet ends with a nail set and a hammer and they popped right out. Looks like they were too short and only swelled in the hole to hold them on. had to grind a little on the back one. The welds holding the trunnions wre because the holes didn"t match up. Going to make it tough to drill out the rivet holes with them half full of slag, oh well thats when the fun starts.
Are Nodak Spud premium receivers OK? I read some comments on a tapco G2 trigger set that you couldn't use them on "NoDak Spud economy receivers". I intend to order the NDS-1 EZ 100% receiver. I am sure I could buy $300++ to get all the tools and not come up with anything as good as these for 1/3 the cost.
 
#84 ·
:welcome::loopeye:Finished demilling my ak, gas lock, rear sight and front site were not pinned or drilled, the gas block was just pressed on, the barrel pin pressed out easy, the barrel pressed out easy and is a 22 mm barrel. Does that mean I have an AK74 trunnion? That's not good because I just ordered a 7.62x39 receiver. Should I get that changed? The one on to begin with was a 7.62x39 which is maybe why things did not line up and were welded. I am totally confused.
 
#85 ·
I think the Saiga 223 models are built on AK74 receivers & trunnions
And yes, I think you should get a hold of the place you ordered the receiver from and see if you can get it switched
 
#86 ·
Thanks Coils, got it changed to a NODAKSPUD 5.45x39 NDS-2EZ. They were very helpful and agreed with you on the dif receiver. No 223 barrels to be found.
There was one with a 23mm trunnion I could get turned down, I have a friend that is a good millwright. he has an amazing shop. No gunsmith stuff though.
 
#88 ·
The 22mm barrel & trunnion is correct, this is what the 74s also use.

(guessing) By piecing the info together that you gave, I think everything you have is correct other then the 7.62 receiver and the poor way it was put together.
I think just by changing out the receiver will get you a functioning rifle.

For now, just sit back and relax (or start a new project) until you get the new receiver.
 
#89 ·
The more research I do the more it looks like a late ak74 build. The gas block is the late one with the hole drilled straight down with the gas block off. the hand guard retainer and spring are a 74 design also, I have not figured out yet what the bullet guide is. I took some better pictures.
I don't think the barrel was ever used, everything on it was like they are shipped. The pin holes were never drilled, just starter holes. the gasblock was just pressed on over the hole predrilled, not pinned, thats why everything was welded, except the gas block, i would guess just an oversight.
There is no sign the middle two holes in the Trunnion were ever drilled. Once i cleaned of the little dab of weld it was clean.
i think if I can find a barrel I"m going back with the 5.56x45.
 

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#90 ·
That does look a lot like a 5.56/223 bullet guide, look here and you can click on the pic to see it larger.
The Largest AK-47/74 Rifle...

So you did confirm that the barrel is 22mm at the chamber?

Is the barrel cut in front of the gas block area? Is it cut or damaged anywhere else?
I'm asking because I'm trying to think of a use for it :D
 
#93 · (Edited)
The barrel is a 22mm, there is a 223, 5.56 barrel on the same web site that is 23 mm. I am tempted to buy it and get it turned down to the same size the one I took out was. The steps should be the same so all my barrel accessories should work. I hate to pay that much for a barrel but hey, whats a guy to do?
 
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