Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 22

Thread: Lower Rail Rivet Confusion

  1. #11
    Gunco Member jh45gun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    26
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default

    1 biggun My friend has a wire feed he does not feel comfortable welding the thin metal of the blank and I do not blame him. If it worked ten years ago using rivets than what do you care? I asked if any one did it and folks do. It is not taking the easy way out it is doing it with our worrying about messing up the blank. I did not buy the jigs my friend did and if he wants to build them this way who am I to argue he has the most money in it and he is helping me build the gun. You like welding an can do it fine. I have welded before so I know what it involves. I also know some times welding thin metal can really be a pain. I think as does my friends the rivets are the safe way to go and it is our projects as long as we are happy with the results that is what matters. I thank the other folks that are going or went the rivet route.

    OK you do not need the jigs from what I have read it has helped a lot of folks do it right the first time with our messing up the holes with templates that may have not been right. We gave it some thought and felt that would be the best route to go. If you do not use them fine does not mean that it is not a good decision or that rivets do not work.

    Thank you for your input

  2. #12
    AKAHOLIC o.d. ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    South West Missouri
    Posts
    1,587
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)

    Default

    built a couple back in the day with screwed in rails before I found the joy of NDS receivers. All worked/work fine just look funny. Rivets should work just as well.

    Everyone has and is entitled to their own opinion though.

  3. #13
    Gunco Regular jimraynor21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    347
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    you cant drill a few 3/16 holes an stick the wire in the center of the hole an count to 4 or 5 while you move in a small circle an sand a bump down lush with a flap disk on a 4.5" grinder .

    Id recommend getting some scraps an spending 10 minutes practicing . a monkey with a rock can do this.
    I have a honest question then. How much force is being put on the rails when the gun is cycling? If a *perfect* weld isn't necessary then I may attempt to drill and fill.

    And for the record I cant afford any fancy tools, I'm going to build it the best I can with what I have. I have an idea for neatly smashing the rivets that involves a motorcycle tool, I plan on letting you guys know how it works out. If I end up buying a nodak receiver that's fine, but I'm gonna see what I can do first without dropping the $100.

  4. #14
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    13,740
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)

    Default

    I have a honest question then. How much force is being put on the rails when the gun is cycling? If a *perfect* weld isn't necessary then I may attempt to drill and fill.
    If you drill fill a 1/8" or better just under a 3/16" hole starting at the center of the hole there is no way they will fall of they will be stonger than a factory spot weld . there is not a huge amount of force.

    id recommend a 035 wire but smaller will work you might need to move the tip a little more with smaller.

    the key is make sure the metal is clean all the burs are gone from the hole an that the rails are covering the hole . its basically the same as doing a spot wild with a wire feed just a few second longer .

    plug welding with a MIG is not that hard you stickhthe wire in the center of the hole squeeze the trigger in a an do a quick tight circle an stop. the hole should be completely full. you don't want to bring the wire to the edge of the hole just let the weld flow up to it some .

    make sure you keep it in the center long enough to get it hot but not to long to burn a hole.

    do one hole an let the metal cool bore going to the next one

    some 1" C clamps with a bit if key stock welded to on side make a great tool to clamp in rails with out all the fumbling around keep the rails tight . an reposition your clamps as needed if there in the way of the welder .

    practice by sanding the original recviver stubs an just doing it on the flat metal with no hole . just keep the wire at a 90 to the work.

    I honestly do it with my eyes closed if my helmet is not handy. its really as easy as squeasing the rigger an counting to 5 an maybe moving the tip in a very small circle .

    It is not taking the easy way out it is doing it with our worrying about messing up the blank.
    IMO your messing the recvcier up by using screws or rivets. an not taking the time to learn a needed skill is taking the easy way out . if you had worked at learning to plug weld it might be harder but your not willing to learn so yes IMO your doing it a easy way.

    most guy come here to learn how to do a better build not how to cobble one together.
    rivets will work so will screws an maybe sheat metal screws but if you want to do it better a plug weld is IMO the first real option to consider that does not involve a special spot welder an custom tongs . if it was 2001 an your tossing a $55 kit together who cares how it looks but know its 2013 an your assembling a rifle that is using at least $500 worth of parts an any one who know anything abut these guns is going to think hack job an they will be right . there assumption that the builder didn't have skills to do it a accepted better way will true. whether the path your taking is called safer or easier it still really means the same thing in th eout come of your build.

    just because guys here tell you they have done it does not mean there saying to it his way . most of them are saying yea it will work but they don't do that way any more . or yea it will work but it looks funny or ugly etc.

    every week new builders come here looking for answers an they only want the answers that make it easy or the ones they want to hear. 20 guys will say don't do some thing an the weeks before rookie will say sounds good looks good or what ever an the guys decide to take the easy way out.

    as far as all the jigs your buddy, has great use them he would be better off with a welder a a book on using it . Im not telling you to learn to weld in telling you if yiur smart enough to figure out how to correctly locate a rail drill holes an then rivet it into place your likely smart enough to stick a wire feed in the center of a hole an pull a trigger long enough to fill the hole an then sand it off with a one of those 4.5" sanding disks that leave such a nice finish.

    do you plan on bending your selector lever out to clear all this crap ? how about on the LH side do you plan on a side rail an optic mount ? might not fit with a bunch of stuff all over the side of the receiver.

    I think as does my friends the rivets are the safe way to go and it is our projects as long as we are happy with the results that is what matters. I thank the other folks that are going or went the rivet route.
    who here is supporting the rivet or screw route ? there saying like I say it will work . those same guys your thanking, are also telling you they don't go that route any more . whats the point of buying rivet tool? juss beat them over with a hammer if looks are not important Ive done It that way it WORKS It also looks like crap but its easy.


    you come here I hope to learn.

    IMO you an your buddy an all the other guys who have welders or access to them should learn to do at least a spot weld with out screwing it up, with a wire feed . a plug weld is nothing more that a big spot weld inside a hole its actually easier because you got a hole to guide you . if you can fill in a 1/4" to 3/16" hole then I really question if you have the ability to do the rest . Id bet my 12 year old could master it in 20 minutes on scrap. IMO at least try it on scrap an see if you can do it.

    Im not trying to insult you im trying to show you an encourage you to do a better job an learn a skill on the way. your right its your project if a ugly looking recvier in the eyes of any one who knows any thing about AK,s or guns is not a concern have fun.

    Is your goal to build a $500 plus fire arm that is just safe an functional or is your goal to build a good quality safe an functional fire arm that looks good?

    for guys who are saying they spent all this money in a tools an parts Id think you would want to build them closer to a accepted correct way.

    again Im trying to encourage you . at least practice on some scraps an then decide. If you keep building Aks the more you going to want better welding skills.

    good luck with what ever you decide.

  5. #15
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    13,740
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)

    Default

    And for the record I cant afford any fancy tools, I'm going to build it the best I can with what I have. I have an idea for neatly smashing the rivets that involves a motorcycle tool, I plan on letting you guys know how it works out. If I end up buying a nodak receiver that's fine, but I'm gonna see what I can do first without dropping the $100.
    are you thinking a chain break?

    a rivet set can be made with a 3/8 or 1/2 inch bolt with a divet ground into it a ball mill works the best .

  6. #16
    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PA Where the Amish Roam Free
    Posts
    14,039
    Feedback Score
    38 (100%)

    Default

    jh45gun, take 1biggun's advise with a grain of salt. He's not trying to give you a hard time, well not much anyway , if you hang out here for a while you'll realize that over time.
    But he makes a good point, since kits cost so much now it's best to do the best you can with what you got, or borrow, or using friends skills to help. Most of the "low cost" builds were done when kits were dirt cheap compared to todays prices, like $60-90 cheap.

    But if your building on a flat or one of those 80% receivers, do it the way that will work for you. Just take your time and do it so you feel safe.





    I have a honest question then. How much force is being put on the rails when the gun is cycling? If a *perfect* weld isn't necessary then I may attempt to drill and fill.
    jimraynor21 the rail with the ejector will be taking the most force when the case is ejected. The other rail just needs to be aligned well.
    As 1biggun suggested, deburr and clean everything so the weld doesn't get contaminated. And no you don't need pretty welds, just functional welds, welds can be cleaned up with a file, sander or grinder.
    If your not sure of your skills, just get some 4130 sheet as close to 1mm thick and practice doing some welds on that until you get the hang of it.
    And for the record I cant afford any fancy tools,
    You don't need fancy tools.
    I have modified bolt cutters, a trigger gaurd jig and a long rivet jig that were made by others and I think I spent just over $150 on these, and bought them one at a time. If you can cut metal and weld (or tap holes) the plans for many of the tools are in the library section, they can easily be modded to your skills. Just remember to set that section to "the biginning" at the bottom of the page.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

  7. #17
    Gunco Regular jimraynor21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    347
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    are you thinking a chain break?

    a rivet set can be made with a 3/8 or 1/2 inch bolt with a divet ground into it a ball mill works the best .
    A chain breaker indeed. It's got a couple of recessed guides that appear to hold the heads of the rivets nicely. I'm gonna have to modify it a bit but I think it has potential. If not I'll be buying a set of bolt cutters to hack up

    I greatly appreciate the advice guys.

  8. #18
    Gunco Regular jimraynor21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    347
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default

    Hey biggun thanks for smacking me. I didn't weld the rails yet but I practiced on a few scrap pieces of metal, to my surprise I had no blowouts and the welds withstood many blows from a hammer.

  9. #19
    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PA Where the Amish Roam Free
    Posts
    14,039
    Feedback Score
    38 (100%)

    Default

    I didn't weld the rails yet but I practiced on a few scrap pieces of metal, to my surprise I had no blowouts and the welds withstood many blows from a hammer.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

  10. #20
    GuncoHolic 2ndAmendican's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Taylors, S.C.
    Posts
    4,808
    Feedback Score
    34 (100%)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jimraynor21 View Post
    Hey biggun thanks for smacking me. I didn't weld the rails yet but I practiced on a few scrap pieces of metal, to my surprise I had no blowouts and the welds withstood many blows from a hammer.

    Good deal. Its always good to practice on some scrap first. Glad its working out for you.
    Enforcement, NOT Amnesty!!!!!!

    "If they’re going to come here illegally, apply for & receive assistance through a corrupted Government agency encouraging this lawless behavior, work under the table & send billions of dollars each year back to their families in Mexico, while bleeding local economies dry, protest in our streets waving their Mexican flags DEMANDING rights, while I have to press ’1′ for English, then they need to be shipped back to where they came from!" -Chad Miller

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Search tags for this page

There are currently no search engine referrals.
Click on a term to search our site for related topics.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •