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Thread: Question on a .308 barrel

  1. #11
    Citizen, Patriot, Ranger bellson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kernelkrink View Post
    Look at the pic of it, they are using the Savage system. The bbl is screwed in as far as it will go and a headspace GO gauge is inserted. The bbl is backed out until the bolt locks, then the lockring threaded onto the bbl OD is tightened against the face of the receiver to secure it. If the receiver face is true, it should work fine although the factory Mausers were butted up against the inner stop ring of the receiver. Since we are talking probably a fraction of a turn between seated and proper headspace, I don't think there will be any problems.

    Hi Kernel,

    This has been tried before. Mausers require the barrel to impact both the inner and outer locking shoulder. Just the way they were designed. If you do not bear against the inner locking shoulder, your groups will wander as the barrel heats up. The wander is about 4 moa from my experience.

    I am not a big fan of Rhineland, they tend to oversimplify. Also, look at the "collar" and compare it to a Savage. It's only about half the width, and I am doubtful that it would stay locked.

    Mr Death, you can use my pull through reamer, action wrench and barrel vise for as long you like. Those are the right tools for this job, and will work like a charm on that M48 of yours.

    Regards,
    Imagine whirled peas

    Peace, Love, And Superior Firepower






    Bellson

  2. #12
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Hi Kernel,

    This has been tried before. Mausers require the barrel to impact both the inner and outer locking shoulder. Just the way they were designed. If you do not bear against the inner locking shoulder, your groups will wander as the barrel heats up. The wander is about 4 moa from my experience.

    I am not a big fan of Rhineland, they tend to oversimplify. Also, look at the "collar" and compare it to a Savage. It's only about half the width, and I am doubtful that it would stay locked.

    Mr Death, you can use my pull through reamer, action wrench and barrel vise for as long you like. Those are the right tools for this job, and will work like a charm on that M48 of yours.

    Regards,
    IM ASSUMING A SAMLL RING IS ALSO TIGHTEND ON A INNER SHOULDER AS WELL?????????????? IM GOING TO BE DOING ONE SOON???

    I HAD THE SAME CONCERNS ABOUT ACCURACY AN THE SIZE OF THE LITTLE BARREL NUT. I DO NOTE THAT SAVAGE HAS A LOT MORE THREADS IN THER RECIVER AS DOES REMINGTON THE MORE SUPPORT THE LESS THE BARREL IS GOING TO WADER FROM THE VERY NEED OF A RECIVER WARPING/WALKING DUE TO HEAT ISSUES AN SHORT THREAD INTERFACE IMO.

    I ASSUME FROM YOUR POST YOU HAVE TRIED SEATING ON THE RECIVER FACE IN THE PAST??????? I ALMOST GOT THE FEELING THAT THE INNER SHOULDER WAS WHAT REALLY MATTERED AN THE OUTER WAS NOT AS IMPORTANT ?????? ANY THOUGHTS ???

    YOUR GING TO REALLY HAVE TO BE PRETTY ACCURATE WITH YOUR MACHINING TO GET BOTH TIGHTEND DOWN EQUALY. IM TRYING TO FIT A ALREADY CHAMBERED BARREL BUT UNTRHEADED BARREL ONTO A RECIVER . IS SEE GETTING THE SHOULDERS AN THE HEAD SPACE PERFCT BEING A BIG CHALLANGE WITH NOT REAMR .

    I GUESS YOU WOULD START OUT LONG AN GET BOTH SHOUDERS HITTING CORRECTLY FIRST AN THEN REMOVE EQUIL AMOUNTS UNTILL IT HEAD SPACES????

    I MIGHT CHEAT AN JUST SET THE HEAD SPACE TIGHT AN CUSTOMISE DIES TO FIT THE GUN

    THE OP WOULD BE DOING HIMSELF A HUGE FAVOR BY TAKING YOU UP ON YOUR OFFER. A SHORT CHAMBERD BARREL AN YOUR STUFF AN HE COULD BE UP AN RUNNIG FOR UNDER $120 WITH SOME OF THE SHORT CHAMBERED BARRELS THAT ARE OUT THERE.

    I SEE THERE ARE REPORTS OF RINELAND SCREWIG PEOPLE OVER AS WELL IM NOT SURE IF THERE VALID.

    WE NEED A FEW GOOD THREADS ON GUYS THREADING BARREL FOR BOLT ACTONS AN FITTING THEM . ANY ONE WILLING TO SHOW HOW THEY DO IT ????

  3. #13
    Citizen, Patriot, Ranger bellson's Avatar
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    My Responses below in RED

    Most of this info is according to Jerry Kuhnhausen's book, "Mauser Bolt Action Rifles, A Shop Manual".

    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    IM ASSUMING A SAMLL RING IS ALSO TIGHTEND ON A INNER SHOULDER AS WELL?????????????? IM GOING TO BE DOING ONE SOON???
    Not the same, but similar. Here is a good link that explains the process.

    bob5

    It starts out with squaring the front of the receiver, and then the inner locking shoulder. Then measuring that distance, and matching the measurement to the barrel breech and locking shoulder. This process ensures a good tight lockup that will not move around as the barrel heats up during firing.



    I HAD THE SAME CONCERNS ABOUT ACCURACY AN THE SIZE OF THE LITTLE BARREL NUT. I DO NOTE THAT SAVAGE HAS A LOT MORE THREADS IN THER RECIVER AS DOES REMINGTON THE MORE SUPPORT THE LESS THE BARREL IS GOING TO WADER FROM THE VERY NEED OF A RECIVER WARPING/WALKING DUE TO HEAT ISSUES AN SHORT THREAD INTERFACE IMO.
    Also the tread type and clearance. Savage was designed to use this type of lockup, Mausers were not.

    I ASSUME FROM YOUR POST YOU HAVE TRIED SEATING ON THE RECIVER FACE IN THE PAST??????? I ALMOST GOT THE FEELING THAT THE INNER SHOULDER WAS WHAT REALLY MATTERED AN THE OUTER WAS NOT AS IMPORTANT ?????? ANY THOUGHTS ???

    As I understand it, they work in concert, and are equally important. I have seen quite a number of Mausers where the Gun Smith did not clearly understand this, and the sad result is poor accuracy and wandering zero. Ask JRS about this....

    YOUR GING TO REALLY HAVE TO BE PRETTY ACCURATE WITH YOUR MACHINING TO GET BOTH TIGHTEND DOWN EQUALY. IM TRYING TO FIT A ALREADY CHAMBERED BARREL BUT UNTRHEADED BARREL ONTO A RECIVER . IS SEE GETTING THE SHOULDERS AN THE HEAD SPACE PERFCT BEING A BIG CHALLANGE WITH NOT REAMR .

    Start with the receiver, then match the barrel, assemble and torque, and then do the final headspace. Perfect every time.

    I GUESS YOU WOULD START OUT LONG AN GET BOTH SHOUDERS HITTING CORRECTLY FIRST AN THEN REMOVE EQUIL AMOUNTS UNTILL IT HEAD SPACES????

    See above, the real key is to square up the receiver, and then match the barrel. Square and smooth mating surfaces are the blessing of this kind of rifle. If you get this right, you will have a tack driver. Mr. Posthumus (the OP on this thread) has an 1895 Mauser that I built years ago. It was assembled using these methods. TWA and JRS also own 98 Mausers that I built, and both seem to be pleased with the results. AGAIN! Ask JRS what happens if this procedure is NOT done correctly.

    I MIGHT CHEAT AN JUST SET THE HEAD SPACE TIGHT AN CUSTOMISE DIES TO FIT THE GUN

    Been there, and it is a good way to really control the entire process so that the bullet hits exactly where you intend it to hit.

    THE OP WOULD BE DOING HIMSELF A HUGE FAVOR BY TAKING YOU UP ON YOUR OFFER. A SHORT CHAMBERD BARREL AN YOUR STUFF AN HE COULD BE UP AN RUNNIG FOR UNDER $120 WITH SOME OF THE SHORT CHAMBERED BARRELS THAT ARE OUT THERE.

    Yes, so long as the barrel and receiver measurements are correct and matching. I assembled two m48 mausers (bought as complete receivers from SARCO) using those same Norwegian barrels. I only had to kiss the front of each receiver to get them just right. I am hopeful that he will find the same to be true.

    I SEE THERE ARE REPORTS OF RINELAND SCREWIG PEOPLE OVER AS WELL IM NOT SURE IF THERE VALID.

    I do not know a lot about them to be truthful, but I have seen the end results of their work and it scares me. My issue with the 98 Barrel they sell is that I just do not trust that the lockup between the barrel and reciever will be sufficient. Also, I hold the deep belief that the right barrel length for .308 or 7.62 NATO is 25 inches. Just my superstition.

    WE NEED A FEW GOOD THREADS ON GUYS THREADING BARREL FOR BOLT ACTONS AN FITTING THEM . ANY ONE WILLING TO SHOW HOW THEY DO IT ????

    Take a good look at the link to Steve Wagner's page above. He is a good guy, does a great job of showing and explaining. Look at some of his tools and solutions to common gunsmithing as well.
    Imagine whirled peas

    Peace, Love, And Superior Firepower






    Bellson

  4. #14
    Scheiße. Mr_Posthumous's Avatar
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    Thank you guys for the input. Didnt even know that about FALs.

    Bellson, I picked up a copy of that book! VERY informative. I also got a wheeler action wrench and barrel vise in the mail. Additionally, I spoke to a very nice lady named Kassi at Coles, who says my Norwegian 98K 7.62x51 replacement barrel should arrive later this week or early next week. Just doing LOTS of reading for the time being.

    I might have to take you up on borrowing that reamer! Need any brass? PM me..

  5. #15
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    BELLSON THANKS FOR THE HELP .

    IM TRYING TO USE A BARREL THAT IS ALREADY FULLY CHAMBERED WITH NO REAMER IN A REMINGTON 700 TAKE OFF THAT IM HOPING TO RETHREAD TO SMALL RING .

    IM THINKING IF CHECK AN FIND THE HEAD SPACE ON THE OLD BARREL IS CORRECT I CAN COPY THE CASE PROTRUSION AN BREACH TO BARREL FLANGE OF THE OLD BARREL.

    IM THINKING IF I TRUE THE RECVIER I COULD MEAURE THE BOLT TO RECIVER FACE DIMENSION AN THEN MACHINE THE BARREL ACCORDINGLY . I RELIZE WITH ACCUMULATING DIMENSIONS IT MIGHT BE OFF I FIGURER I SHOULD BE ABLE TO ERROR ON THE LOOSE HEAD SPACE SIDE AN IF NEEDED PULL AN RECUT THE TWO BARREL CONTACT POINTS ACCORDINGLY . OF COURSE ILL CHECK EVERY THING WITH OUT THE OLD BARREL NUMBERS TO SEE IF IT ALL MAKES SENCE .

    IM GIVING UP ON THE BARREL NUT IDEA FOR NOW .

    ILL CHECK OUT THE LINKS. I NEED TO LEARN FAST IM STILL TRYING TO GET THE LARGE RING UP AN RUNNING IN 6.5 SWEDED BY LATE JUNE FOR VARMINTS . MONEY AN TOOLS ARE SLOWING ME DOWN MY GUN SMITH BUDDY WHO I HAD HOPED WOULD HELP AN MENTOR IS SWAMPED. IM THINKING I CAN MAKE A BARREL WRENCH IM GOING TO NEED A SMALL RING AN LARGE RING ONE ANY WAY .

  6. #16
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    JUST READ THE LINKED STUFF GOOD PICS AN STUFF.

    I NEED THAT SCOPE MOUNT JIG AN A MADREL TO TRUE THE RECIVER FACE.

    MIGHT TRY TO MAKE THE MANDRAL .

    I HAVE BEEN CONSIDERING MAKING MY OWN 1 PIECE BASES . IT SEEMS THREE IS A LACK OF IFO FOR THE SPANISH SMALL RING ON WHAT FITS.

  7. #17
    Gunco Veteran Viper Dude's Avatar
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    Guys,
    I have used the Israeli .308 K98-Mauser barrels on various Mauser actions. Those barrels were Belgian FN contract-made and were primo. They were chambered a bit deep so I had to face off the breach end to get them dialed in. That was tedious !!!

    The original old 8mm Mauser barrels butted against the inner receiver ring however there was typically a fine gap at the front of the receiver. I was told that the front shoulder on the original barrels was cosmetic, especially in war-time production.

    A few '98 actions I barrelled had no front shoulder on the barrel. Notice also that the Turk '98 actions have a retaining lip for a handguard on the front of their receiver !!!! I remove that lip using my own action mandrel in a lathe.

    Mauser rifles are the coolest and not too complex to gunsmith.

    VD in AZ

  8. #18
    Gunco Member Jay Byrd's Avatar
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    The M48 has a little advantage over a standard length mauser in that it has a little more support on the rear of the cartridge than others when a barrel is installed like the original. On the down side the action is a little shorter and makes using longer cartridges more difficult. The 308 is a good choice. I have used several Lother Walther barrels with excellent results. Everything shoots 1/2" or less at 100yds with hand loads. The bore and chamber is lapped and the headspace is long and set by setting the barrel back. They don't want you to touch inside with a reamer. It voids the warranty. If it is defective you get a replacement. Properly done the barrel tightens against both the inside and outside of the receiver. If you want it to shoot fine get a Lother Walther and have it installed by a experienced gunsmith. A Timney Sportsman trigger is a great addition also. If you only want to go bang and have no regard for accuracy install anything. Then you see you wasted money on poo. And wish you had did it right to start with. Shortcuts typically mean poor results. The Mauser brothers were smart designers. Been there, done that.

  9. #19
    3/6 Infantry mtdew's Avatar
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    Some dykem or even candle smoke on the bbl shoulder and face and a small needle file works great to fit a bbl. Just hand tighten, remove and gently file the places where the smoke is rubbed off, repeat till you get 100% contact, then torque. I get outstanding results even with Midway Adams & Bennet. Its tedeous, but it works.
    "NA BEAN DON CHAT GUN LAMHAINN"
    Clan MacPherson
    "CREAG DHUBH"!

  10. #20
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I I had cash id crab one if the linked Israel barrels just to have as a spare. If my 6.5x55 swiss project don't shoot I will be looking for a good 308 barrel.

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