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Thread: THE LOAD BY C E HARRIS

  1. #1
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Default THE LOAD BY C E HARRIS

    I THOUGHT ID PLACE THIS HERE AS WELL AS THE RLEOADING SECTION AS MANY GUYS SEEM TO BE BUYING BOLT ACTIONS AS CHEAP TO SHOOT ALTERNATIVES THESE DAYS .

    I HAVE WORKED THESE LOADS UP IN 30-06 BEFORE AN THEY WORK GREAT . HERE IS THE ORIGINAL VERSION . IM GOING TO DO SOME CAST 7.62X54R. 45-70 AN 308 WIN SOME TIME .

    THE 30-06 LOADS I DID WERE REDUCED A LOT AN THEY SHOT ONE HOLE OUT OF MY PERUVIAN MAUSER AT ABOUT 40 YARDS INTHE BACK YARD HTERE VERY LOW RECOIL AN REASONABLY QUIET . I USED JACKETED BULLETS. CAST .308 ARE NOT REALL COMMON BUTHERE OUT THEREM MY KID WHEN HE WAS 10 SHOT A BUNCH OF THEM I LIKELY RELOADED THE SAME 20 CASES 500 TIMES . USED TO BE ABOUT 5 CENTS EACH TO DO BEORE OBOMBO GOT ELECTED AN PRIMERS ABN POWDER DOUBLED .

    WAS UNDER 13 GRAINS IN MY 30-06 BTW I WAS USING 110 GRIAN BULLETS AN LIKE 7 GRAINS OR SOMEHTING ( DONT QUOTE ME OR USE THAT LOAD!!) I WAS MAKING SUPER LIGHT BACK YARD LOADS TO SHOOT LIKE A 22 MAG FOR A 10 YEAR OLD IN AS HE CALLED IT THEN THE ARMY GUN

    The Load" is 13 Grains of Red Dot"

    By C.E. Harris, Revised 2-16-94

    My success in economizing by using up leftover shotshell powder has changed my
    approach to handloading. I had a caddy of Red Dot, and no longer reloaded
    shotshells, so asked myself, "what can I do with it?" My shooting is now
    mostly high-power rifle. I needed several hundred rounds a week to practice
    offhand, reloading, and working the bolt in sitting and prone rapid, but didn't
    want to burn out my barrel or my wallet. Powder used to be cheap, but today is
    $20/lb. (or more), so cost is a factor in component choice.

    I used to ignore pistol or shotgun powders in reduced rifle loads for the usual
    reasons: the risk of accidental double-charges, fears of erratic ignition, and
    concerns with maintaining accuracy, and reduced utility with a low-power load.
    Still, the caddy of Red Dot kept "looking at me" from the corner. Would it
    work? Looking at data in the RCBS Cast Bullet Manual No. 1 and the Lyman Cast
    Bullet Handbook suggested it would, so I tried it, much to my delight! Red Dot
    is bulky, compared to the usual rifle powders used in .30-'06-size cases. It
    occupies more powder space in typical charges than common "reduced load" rifle
    powders, such as #2400, IMR4227, IMR4198 or RL-7. The lower bulk density of Red
    Dot adequately addresses my safety concerns because it makes an accidental
    double charge far less likely.

    After considerable experimentation, my friends and I found "The Load" IS 13
    grains of Hercules Red Dot, in any FULL SIZED rifle case of .30 cal. or larger.
    "The Load" has distinct advantages over more expensive alternatives, within
    certain limitations, which are:

    1. The case must be LARGER than the .300 Savage or .35 Remington.

    2. The rifle must be of MODERN (post 1898) design, suitable for smokeless
    powder, with a bore size of .30 cal. or larger.

    3. The bullet weight must be within the NORMAL range for the given cartridge.

    4. Inert fillers such as Dacron, kapok or are NOT RECOMMENDED! (Nor are they
    necessary).

    Within these restrictions I have now engraved in stone, "The Load" works! The
    bullet may be either jacketed or cast. Gaschecked cast bullets required in the
    .30 cals., otherwise you will get leading, but plainbased ones work fine in the
    8mm Mauser or larger.

    "The Load" has shown complete success in the .30-40 Krag, .303 British, 7.65
    Argentine, .308 Win., 7.62x54R Russian, .30-'06, 8x57 and .45-70
    (strong-actioned rifles such as the 1886 Winchester or 1895 Marlin -- 12 grs.
    is maximum for 400 gr. bullets in the Trapdoor Springfield -- Ed.) Though I
    have not tried it, I have no doubt that "The Load" would work well in other
    cartridges fitting these parameters, such as the .35 Whelen, .358 Winchester,
    .375 H&H or .444 Marlin, based on RCBS and Lyman published data.

    "The Load" fills 50% or more of a .308 Win or .30-'06 case. The risk of an
    accidental double charge is greatly reduced, because the blunder is immediately
    obvious if you visually check, powder fill on EVERY CASE, as you should
    whenever handloading! A bulky powder measures more uniformly, because normal
    variation in the measured volume represents a smaller percentage of the charge
    weight.

    Red Dot's granulation is somewhat less coarse than other flake powders of
    similar burning rate, such as 700-X, which aids metering. Its porous, uncoated
    flakes are easily ignited with standard primers. So-called "magnum" primers do
    no harm in cases larger than the .30-'06, but are neither necessary nor
    recommended in smaller ones. I DO NOT recommend pistol primers in reduced rifle
    loads, because weak primers may cause erratic ignition, and their thinner cups
    can perforate more easily, causing gas leakage and risk of personal injury!

    The velocities obtained with 13 grs. of Red Dot appear mild, but "The Load" is
    no pipsqueak! In a case like the .308 or .30-'06, you get (from a 24" sporter
    barrel) about 1450 f.p.s. with a 200- gr. cast bullet, 1500 with a 170-gr., or
    1600 with a 150-gr. cast load. "The Load" is fully comparable to "yesterday's
    deer rifle", the .32-40, and provides good expansion of cheap, soft alloys
    (10-13 BHN) at woods ranges. Jacketed bullet velocities with "The Load" are
    about 120-150 f.p.s. less than a lubricated lead bullet of the same weight.

    Longer-barreled military rifles pick up a few feet per second, but "The Load"
    starts to slow down in barrels over 28", such as the M91 Moisin-Nagant and long
    Krags or 98a Mausers.

    My preferred alloy in the .30 cals. is a mixture of 3-5 lbs. of .22 backstop
    scrap to 1 lb. of salvaged linotype. Wheelweights also work well, as do soft
    "Scheutzen" alloys such as 1:25 tin/lead. in bores of 8 mm or larger. "The
    Load" drives soft- cast .30-cal. to 8 mm bullets fast enough to get expansion,
    but without fragmenting. These out-penetrate factory .30-30 softpoints, and
    kill medium game up to 150 lbs. well at short ranges up to 100 yards, when
    placed accurately. In medium and large bores like the .375 H&H or .45-70, "The
    Load" gives typical black powder ballistics for the bore. A 255-265 gr. cast
    bullet in the .375 H&H approximates the .38-55 at 1330 f.p.s. Soft 300- 405-gr.
    cast bullets are pushed at 1300-1350 f.p.s. from a 22" barrel .45-70, sporter
    are very effective on deer at woods ranges. Cast bullets over .35 cal. do not
    have to expand appreciably to work well on game if blunt and heavy for their
    caliber.

    The Load" works well with jacketed bullets, giving somewhat lower velocities
    than with cast lead, due to less effective obturation and greater friction in
    the bore. The 85-gr. or 100-gr. Hornady or 90-gr. Sierra JHP for the .32 H&R
    Mag. revolver, or the Remington 100-gr. .32-20 softpoint bullet become mild,
    but destructive varmint loads at 1600 f.p.s. from a .308 or '06.

    If you substitute a stiffly jacketed 110-gr. .30 Carbine softpoint bullet,
    designed for higher velocities than imparted by "The Load", you have a
    non-destructive "coup de gras", small game or wild turkey load which shoots
    close to your deer rifle's normal zero, but at 25 yards! A more accurate and
    effective small game or varmint load uses a flat-nosed 150-gr. Page Ranking 170-gr.
    .30-30 bullet instead. These don't expand at the 1400-1450 f.p.s. obtained
    with "The Load", but their larger frontal area improves killing power compared
    to roundnoses or spitzers.

    I have use pulled GI .30 caliber Ball, and Match bullets with "The Load" for
    cheap 200-yd. NMC boltgun practice. Accuracy is equal to arsenal loads, but I
    use my 600-yard sight dope at 200 yards. I expect 5-6" ten-shot, iron-sight
    groups at 200 yards using M2 or M80 pulled bullets and about 3-4" for the M72
    or M118 Match bullets. I use these mostly in bolt-action rifles, but they can
    be single-loaded for offhand or slow-fire practice ion the Garand as well.
    These .30 cal. pulls shoot fine in the .303 British or 7.62x54 Russian, despite
    their being a bit small, because the fast-burning Red Dot upsets them into the
    deeper grooves. The 173-gr. Match .30 cal. boattail bullets may not shoot as
    well at these low velocities as lighter flat bases in the 12" twist .308 Win.
    barrels, but they do quite well in ten- inch twist barrels such as in the '06,
    7.62 Russian, .303 British and 7.65 Argentine.

    The longer bore time of these 1400 f.p.s. (typical 170-180-gr. jacketed load
    velocity) practice loads makes errors in follow- through apparent, a great
    practice and training aid. The light recoil and lower report of these loads
    helps transition Junior tyro shooters from the .22 rimfire to the service rifle
    without being intimidated by the noise and recoil.

    Zeroing is no problem in the M1 or M14, because "The Load" shoots into the
    ten-ring of the reduced SR target at 200 yards from your M1 or M14 rifle at
    using your normal 600 yard sight dope! The somewhat greater wind deflection
    blows you into the "8" ring at 200 yards with the same conditions you would
    expect to do so at 600 yards with M118 Match ammunition. This provides your
    Junior shooters some useful wind-doping practice.

    The economy of a lighter charge is obvious. A full power .30-'06 load using 50
    grs. of an IMR powder like 4064 costs 10 cents a pop, just for powder, at 140
    rounds per pound (if you are lucky enough to find new powder for $14/lb.).
    Substituting 13 grs. of Red Dot gets 538 rounds per pound at a cost of 2.6
    cents which is a savings of over $7 per hundred rounds in powder alone! Greater
    savings are possible if you get the best price and buy powder by the caddy.

    Velocity and point of impact of "The Load" is not noticeably affected by
    varying powder position in the case. I shoot them either slow fire, or clip-fed
    and flipped through rapid-fire in the boltgun with equal accuracy. Red Dot is
    very clean burning and is economical both on the basis of its lower charge
    weight, and its lower basic cost per pound compared to other "rifle" powders.

    Best of all, using a shotshell powder I already have reduces the kinds of
    powder I keep and eliminates the need for a special "reduced load" powder. This
    approach is ideal for rifle shooters who are also shotgunners, since almost
    everybody who reloads for 12-ga. probably has a keg of Red Dot already!

    I now realize it is foolish to use heavier charges of more expensive powder for
    routine practice, varmint or small game loads in my center-fire rifles. I
    seldom shoot at over 200 yards, and don't enjoy wearing out expensive target
    barrels unnecessarily. Since I already have good sight dope and need to work
    more on technique and save my remaining barrel accuracy life for matches.

    I am glad I found the way to get alot more shooting for the dollar. Economical
    powder choice IS possible, and my reloading has become less complicated and
    more enjoyable simple since I realized I could do most of my rifle shooting
    with 13 grains of Red Dot!

  2. #2
    Gunco Veteran Toten Kopf's Avatar
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    I use a modified version of "The Load". Use it in my 8mm K98k for 200 yard old military rifle matches. Don't need to have flames coming out the barrel to have a good score at that distance.

    However, instead of using 13.0 grains of Redot, I use 14.5 grains. The reason I upped the powder charge was because the case neck wasn't sealing that well upon firing with the 13.0 grains. Cases and chamber were very dirty.

    Changed the load and everything is dandy.
    "It Takes A Strong Man To Be Kind", Sgt Nathan Wilson, 5th SFG (1970)

    WOLVERINES! One of GUNCO's First Hundred!

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    Gunco Regular willie's Avatar
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    Ed Harris is a regular wealth of information. Use to write him regularly on one of the old BBS firearms groups before the internet. If IRC he was head of QC at Ruger at one time. He had some great stories.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    GOOD TO KNOW HE IS REPTUABLE .

    I HAVE SEEN SOME OF HIS STUFF ELSE WERE.

    ID LIKE SOME LIGHT 45-70 LOADS FOR MY HANDI RILFE THAT DONT KICK SO BAD BUT WILL DELIVER SOME HEAVY LEAD ABOUT 75 YARDS. IM GOING TO ORDER SOME CAST BULLETS , AN BRASS AN DIES FOR IT .

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    Gunco Regular willie's Avatar
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    I cast Lee 500gr about 10 yrs ago. If you need gas checks let me know.

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