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Thread: HELP on 1897 Win trench gun

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    GuncoHolic twa2471's Avatar
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    Default HELP on 1897 Win trench gun

    Today I ran into a guy the has a 1897 Winchester "trench gun" and I have no idea of value and had some questions.

    First the SN is 10105** and blued finish, he says it's a 1943 vintage military. I thought that vintage was parked????, duno? I've found all kind of conflicting info and don't know where to look for straight answers on them,,,,,

    any body know about them, or have sorceress for info on them?????

    It's a modern equivalent of a high VG condition, 85% blueing +, mirror bore, no dents in barrel,original bayo and very nice unmolested wood ,,finish wise and cartouche's sharp and intact. He's asking 2500'''''in the ball park?

    What ya guys know????


    HELP !!!

    I need all the help I can get ,,,quick, I'm competing for it with someone else that's interested too. So time is of the essence if you can help out!!!!!

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    Diss Member netpackrat's Avatar
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    If the following is to be believed, it's newer than that:

    http://www.winchesterguns.com/suppor...-Documents.pdf
    http://www.boomsticksforever.com/
    Specializing in hand-built modular stocks.

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    GuncoHolic twa2471's Avatar
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    One source I found said 1955-56 just going by #. The bluing threw me I'm pretty sure the WW11 vintage were all parked,could be wrong, shotties aren't my cup of tea. And was thinking it was later too. This Winchester site seems to confirm that SN wise.

    It seems like info is all over the place on these guns with a ton of fakes around, or at least many are not what people think they are anyways.

    Thanks for the info ,,,now the Big question,,,value???? I don't have any recent books to find out what it's worth. Would you happen to have a current one. we'll go with it being a 55-early56. 85% condition. With bayo, not numbered and 60% condition with frog.

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    Diss Member netpackrat's Avatar
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    I guess the question I would ask, is was the military even buying 1897 trench guns in '55-'56? Because it sounds like a fake to me.
    http://www.boomsticksforever.com/
    Specializing in hand-built modular stocks.

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    GuncoHolic twa2471's Avatar
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    That I'm not sure of that either,,but I'm in research mode. I'm thinking it may be a PD one though or as you say a possible fake. I guess there's lots of those around from what I've read so far.

    It was hard for me to get a good look at it sense I just happened to see it when I was out for a wheeler ride and didn't have my reading glass's with me. Cartouches and small # are hard to see without them nowadays, gerrrrr,,, OLD BONES/EYES!!

    It belongs to a local guy that lives on one of the roads that goes to our ATV trails, I'd seen a real nice Porshe in his garage while passing by a few times and that day he had it out and dusting it off,,,,so being a CAR NUT,,,,I just had to stop and look at it. Of Course!!!!
    We got BSing and guns just happened to come up, that's how I found out about the "trench" initially.

    He defiantly is a S&W fan though, he had a couple Combat Masterpiece's that were just beautiful and a Browning 22 target auto,60's vintage I'm guessing, that looked close to unfired condition, he wants 1K for that one. He is also a European gun fancier, just like me, and he has some real beauties, double set trigger commercial Mauser sporting rifles, Drillings, old Sakos , Belgium Weatherbeys and stuff like that. All cherry-cherry, and most with original paperwork and box's!!!!!! NICE!!!!!

    Well it looks like more research is in order,, Thanks for the help, netpackrat, much appreciated.

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    GuncoHolic twa2471's Avatar
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    UPDATE,,, it wasn't a 97, it was a mod 12. It is an original with conformation paperwork ,,,unfortunatly it sold this early AM,,,,,I missed it,,,,DRAT!!!!!

    Oh well,,, I've got to many bills to buy anything else any hoo or do I need anything else!!! RIGHT,,, we'll see how long that one lasts!!!! Wana start a pool????

    Thanks for the help netpackrat,,,

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    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    Default twa

    twa. As netpackrat showed with the serial numbers, the more you look into them, the more confused you will get on production, value, who owned them, where they been, etc..
    Military, Police, civilian, or all had them in their hands at one time????? From WWI too Vietnam, quite a good weapon they made..
    Like the Ithica, you can hold the trigger back, rack and keep firing.. Germans wanted them outlawed in WWI.. Troops were cleaning trenches, scaring the dog piss out of the Germans..
    Some bad pictures of mine, try to get yah more tomorrow. That guy wanted $2,500 I think you said? For that kind of money, mint condition with authenticating date paper work from the Winchester Cody museum in Wyoming, plus toss in his Porsche. They had a fire as stated and lost most all the records..
    Mine dates 1917 according to the serial numbers.. Winchester wants $75 for an official paper stating such.
    I paid a whopping $275 for mine last year.. Bayo to fit $125... Bore is a bit rough, but for that kind of money I did not care..
    Lot of Cartouches and I.D. marks on them from use over the years.. Original parts out there for purchase.. I need a screw on mine..
    http://www.bbhc.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/
    Call the museum before you purchase one.. Thousands and thousands were produced.. Ask for a tech.. Girls up front will just want to sell you the $75 confirmation paper..
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    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


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    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


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    GuncoHolic twa2471's Avatar
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    That ,,Is one thing I found,,,lots and lots of confusion on them and lots of little nuances to look for to determine if there are real or not. That is one thing I did figure out for sure.

    This one had all the factory paperwork with it, plus a picture of the guy it was originally issued too holding it, and the same guy that ended up with it after WW11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twa2471 View Post
    That ,,Is one thing I found,,,lots and lots of confusion on them and lots of little nuances to look for to determine if there are real or not. That is one thing I did figure out for sure.

    This one had all the factory paperwork with it, plus a picture of the guy it was originally issued too holding it, and the same guy that ended up with it after WW11.
    Not sure on the imitation ones twa.. Damn, the way these things are built, it would probably cost someone more to make an imitation than the dang thing is worth..
    Sounds like that one you speak of had a good record account, adding to the value.. But Google them, my God conflicting everything on them, from the so called experts..
    These used in WWI should have some sort of bomb in a circle? cartouche.. Even that starts a fight with the Winchester experts. Was it put on before, or after the war when put up in storage by the Military? Now keep in mind, these were used in Korea, WWII, Vietnam, by Police Departments, sold to the public..
    Even in speaking with the Man at the Winchester Cody museum..Nice guy, but he said he would have to sit and study it to even get me a close history on the weapon.. Lot of small, no idea, markings on it.. Notches on the trigger guard, someone got hurt..
    Damn fire destroyed the records.. If you find one at a good price, hell grab it.. But to pay big money, I would want the Cody museum to check it out first..
    One serial number posted on mine says 1909 another says 1917???
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