Got riped off by this company on GunsAmerica...
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Thread: Got riped off by this company on GunsAmerica...

  1. #1
    GuncoHolic Bolt2Bounce2's Avatar
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    Default Got riped off by this company on GunsAmerica...

    I got ripped off by this company through Guns America... and this is the return e mail they sent me... SO for all you guys out there don't make the same mistake I did... in order to help you guys keep your hard earned money... I'm posting this info.... B2B

    To: <>
    Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:11 PM
    Subject: Got ripped off by this company on this
    The gun # was---------- Forwarded message ----------
    Date: Sep 13, 2008 1:31 PM
    Subject: Fw: Re: Customer Inquiry On Listing #902419984 - Buy It

    Note: forwarded message attached.
    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: "CostClubForGuns" <save@costclubforguns>
    Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:12:21 -0500
    Subject: Re: Customer Inquiry On Listing #902419984 - Buy It

    Please send $729. + $25.shipping and a copy of the FFL of where to
    ship, and we will get this right out.

    Please mail or heck or money order to:

    Local Mailers
    Box 111
    Ringwood, IL 60072

    Please make your check or money order out to LOCAL MAILERS.



    ----- Original Message -----
    From: GunsAmerica
    Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:48 PM
    Subject: Customer Inquiry On Listing #902419984 - Buy It
    Can't Read This Email? Click Here
    GunsAmerica Buyer Offer
    9:40:58 PM Eastern Time
    This is an official GunsAmerica Notification.
    We strongly suggest that you do not use links in email, though we have
    provided them.
    This is from us, but someone could send the exact same message linking
    to a fake web site that looks just like GunsAmerica and unless you
    were paying close attention you may not notice.
    Log into your GunsAmerica account on the web site and click Inquiries
    in My Selling and this message will be there as well.

    Remington -- 700 CDL SF LIMITED 17 Rem FIREBALL
    Listing #:902419984
    Your Item #:N/A Posted On:06/09/2008
    Inquiries So Far:0
    Click here to view full listing
    Buyer Details
    Verified By:Unverified
    Verified On:N/A
    Changed Details Since?N/A
    Has Bought Here Before?No
    Strikes (Unsent Payments):0

    FFL Details: Not chosen.
    Payment Method: N/A
    PLEASE RETAIN THIS EMAIL. It is safer and smarter to do these actionsthrough My Selling.
    Mark as Sold Pending Funds & Contact Buyer
    Mark as Under Consideration & Answer Buyer
    Decline Offer to Buy & Answer Buyer

    Guns America Email System
    (C)2008 GunsAmerica LLC

    From: GunsAmerica Customer>
    Date: November 7, 2008 9:31:11 AM PST
    Subject: Re: Got ripped off by this company on this

    We recommend you contact your local post master as this may be considered mail fraud since payment was by mail and shipment was supposed to be by mail. If there is an official investigation by USPS or law enforcement we will cooperate with the investigation on your behalf.
    How to Protect Yourself
    There are a number of fraudulent buyers and sellers out there who are trying to take your hard earned money and inventory. The most popular scam these days seems to be the offer (or "mistake") of sending more money than you're asking for your item so you can give the "change" to the person who picks up or delivers the item; their own "shipping company" or similar wording. DON'T FALL FOR IT!! The check or money order is almost always bad.
    Another common scam is when someone insists on using ONLY bank transfers or Western Union, Money Gram, or other types of wire transfers. NEVER engage in a bank transfer or use of wire transfers with someone you do not trust completely; very often there is some kind of scam or fraud involved. For more complete information, and tips on how to stay ahead of the bad guys and thieves, please take the time to read this FAQs section on Fraud & Scams in full.
    Below are some warnings & tips to help stay a step ahead of the bad guys:
    NEVER accept a Money Gram or Western Union unless you know the buyer personally or feel confident you can trust the buyer. Although we never recommend Money Gram or Western Union for any transaction.
    NEVER accept a bank/wire transfer for payment. This is almost ALWAYS A SCAM!! Doing so may allow the buyer to hack into your bank account!!
    NEVER accept payment for more than the price of the listing & shipment. This is a typical scam - to pay for more than you ask. The excuse will be that their spouse or secretary accidentally made out the check or money order for too much OR it was done on purpose so the remainder of the money can be used to pay the shipper they will send to pick up the item. This is ALWAYS A SCAM!!
    NEVER ship before a check or money order has cleared! Another common scam is when the buyer asks the seller to ship before a check or money order has cleared.
    * If accepting money orders as payment we recommend the use of United States Postal Money Orders. Postal money orders are hardest to forge AND can be cashed at any post office - keeping you from incurring any fees from your bank if the money order is bogus.
    Yet another buyer scam is to send the seller a small amount by check, for down-payment or lay away, so the seller will hold the item for the buyer until full payment is made. Sometimes the check bounces and sometimes it does not, but the scam is that the check (good or bad) is eventually returned to the buyer with YOUR ACCOUNT NUMBER on it - giving the scammer information that can help them hack into your account. NEVER accept checks for lesser amounts to hold an item or lay away unless you know the buyer personally or are willing to take a chance! If you want to take a down payment or layaway take only United States Postal Money Orders. USPS Money Orders are the safest way to accept payment by mail.
    Sometimes an item will be paid in full with a check that bounces in an effort to get your account number - that is because some banks will return the bounced check (or a copy of it) to the person who wrote the check as well as sending a copy to you. To protect yourself you can either cash the check at any branch of the bank the check is drawn on OR you can call the exact branch of the bank the check is drawn on BEFORE you cash it and ask if the funds are available.
    >> If accepting any kind of check as payment we recommend, whenever possible or if suspicious, you cash the check at a branch of the bank the check is from. This keeps you from incurring any fees if the check is no good AND it since the check is not deposited into your account, at your bank, your account number is not on the back of the check when it is returned to the buyer.
    Scammers (both buyers & sellers) will often ask to ship without an FFL. Don't fall for it! ALWAYS use an FFL if required by law.
    Fraudulent buyers have been known to give FFL information to lure sellers into accepting bogus payment. If you are a seller, ALWAYS check out the FFL dealer you are shipping to; visit the ATF website to verify their license number and address AND call the dealer yourself to verify.
    Fraudulent sellers have been known to give FFL information to lure buyers into paying for items that will never ship OR when selling inferior products. If you are a buyer, ALWAYS check out the FFL dealer that will be shipping the item; visit the ATF website to verify their license number and address AND call the dealer yourself or ask your FFL dealer that will be receiving the package to verify the FFL shipper for you.
    Scammers usually use prepaid cell phones or payphones for contact. We recommend communicating with a member only if they can supply you with a phone number that can be verified (name, number, and address match) through an online directory such as or
    ALWAYS get complete contact information from a buyer/seller before any payment is sent. Do NOT rely on GunsAmerica to give you this information - we have a strict privacy policy that prevents us from giving you contact information about any member. YOU are responsible for obtaining this information.
    If you suspect a scam please forward the suspicious email/evidence to GunsAmerica customer service. The email must include the suspicious text and the member's email address as it is displayed in your regular email. It is best to forward email from your regular email program and include the full header: to/from/date/subject. Or, give us the member's display name (User ID) as it is displayed in your GA Offers & Messages. It must be exact so be sure to use copy & paste to give us this information. We will terminate the member's account if it is clear to us there is a scam or fraud or an attempt to scam or fraud is involved.
    If you're the victim of a scam or fraud see our FAQs on this subject or ask customer service to send you a list of agencies that may help you. Please also give us the basic details. GunsAmerica can terminate the scammer's account but you will need to contact your local law enforcement and other local/state/federal agencies in order to take further action.
    ATF FAQs and other helpful information:
    ATF FFL Dealer eZ Check:
    (you will need to know the first 3 and last 5 numbers of the dealer's license AND their address to verify)
    Please also read the FAQs on Frauds & Scams.
    Who should you notify about Internet frauds or scams?
    * FTC online complaint form (
    The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive, and unfair business practices and to provide information to help spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint in English or Spanish, click or call 1-877-382-4357. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, identity theft, and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to more than 1,600 civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad. If you get email that you think is someone trying to scam you or commit fraud, forward it to The FTC puts the information in a database and uses the information to pursue law enforcement actions against people who send deceptive email.
    * Internet Fraud Complaint Center:
    The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C), and the Bureau of Justice Assistance (BJA). IC3's mission is to serve as a vehicle to receive, develop, and refer criminal complaints regarding the rapidly expanding arena of cyber crime. The IC3 gives the victims of cyber crime a convenient and easy-to-use reporting mechanism that alerts authorities of suspected criminal or civil violations. For law enforcement and regulatory agencies at the federal, state, local and international level, IC3 provides a central referral mechanism for complaints involving Internet related crimes.
    * Your local police department, using their non-emergency number, or visit the station in person. Ask them for advice on how to proceed. Give them the basics then ask whose jurisdiction is involved and ask if they will, at the very least, allow you to file a formal complaint for the record or direct you to the jurisdiction where you should file your complaint.
    * For issues involving illegal use of your credit card, contact the bank that issued your card to you. Keep in mind a common "dispute" is not the same as illegal activity. If you have a payment dispute with someone you should first try to work it out with them. Sometimes it is faster to resolve simple disputes on your own than to go to your bank for help. If you gave your credit card to a scammer, contact your bank immediately. Scammers are not only looking to take your money for items not shipped, but they are also looking to steal your identity and credit card information for later use.
    * For issues involving identity theft, credit card fraud, and anything that involves large sums of money (in any U.S. form) being exchanged for payment, contact The United States Secret Service. The Secret Service investigates crimes associated with financial institutions. Today, this jurisdiction includes bank fraud, access device fraud involving credit and debit cards, telecommunications and computer crimes, fraudulent identification, fraudulent government and commercial securities, and electronic funds transfer fraud. This is a good place to start:

    * Canadian PhoneBusters hotline: 888-495-8501

    * If an actual firearm is involved you can contact the ATF, but ONLY if there is a firearm involved. Keep in mind many Internet scammers who advertise firearms, with the intent to rip you off, don't even have the firearm they say they are selling - very often it does not exist, and they never intended to ship. If the item does not exist, the ATF will NOT get involved. Here is the best place to start if considering contacting the ATF:

    * An interesting website to help you fight back, and get your frustrations out on these thieves:

    * If you have any specific information about an agency that will help with Internet and mail order frauds and scams, please share it with us. Thank you.
    GA Customer Service
    * To insure a quick and accurate reply please INCLUDE OUR TEXT IN YOUR REPLY. Thank you.


    > To: <>
    > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:11 PM
    > Subject: Got ripped off by this company on this

    >> The gun # was---------- Forwarded message ----------
    >> Date: Sep 13, 2008 1:31 PM
    >> Subject: Fw: Re: Customer Inquiry On Listing #902419984 - Buy It
    Note: forwarded message attached.
    > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    >> From: "CostClubForGuns" <save@costclubforguns>
    >> To:
    >> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:12:21 -0500
    >> Subject: Re: Customer Inquiry On Listing #902419984 - Buy It

    >> Please send $729. + $25.shipping and a copy of the FFL of where to
    >> ship, and we will get this right out.

    >> Please mail or heck or money order to:

    >> Local Mailers
    >> Box 111
    >> Ringwood, IL 60072

    >> Please make your check or money order out to LOCAL MAILERS.
    > Cliff

  2. #2
    AKAHOLIC o.d. ak's Avatar
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    Jul 2006
    South West Missouri
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    3 (100%)


    Ok i'm kinda confused, is "CostClubForGuns" the people who ripped you off ?

    Second, this message is dated like 6 months ago, ???

    And personally the alarms would be ringing like mother effers if they asked me to send payment to an address that had absolutely nothing to do with thier company name/make check or MO payable to such names.

    And WTF kind of name is Local Mailers ? That shit is like more fishy than being made out to "cash".

  3. #3
    GuncoHolic Bolt2Bounce2's Avatar
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    Dec 2005
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    yes Cost club ripped me off, yes the phone # and web sight has local mailers on the message as part of cost club for guns..... along with other business like Fox river guns etc.. It was a while ago, I just wanted to warn people of the problems I had, so they would not make a mistake I did.. It was a bad choice to send $$..but I was looking for that rifle...I've used guns America before with no problems...I figured they were legit... no gun ever shipped to my FFL dealer... B2B
    Last edited by Bolt2Bounce2; 09-04-2012 at 12:57 AM.

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  5. #4
    Gunco Member woodmaster9's Avatar
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    Did you call them? What do they say?
    Of course I believe you but their web site looks legit & they have a good feedback rating on Auction Arms. Could be that it was lost in shipping and insurance (if any) will kick in.

  6. #5
    Gunco Veteran patjsimpson's Avatar
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    Oct 2008
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    26 (100%)


    looks like they sell on auctionarms also with good feedback.

  7. #6
    Gunco Rookie freema22's Avatar
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    I know I am new, but I saw your message about Cost Club For Guns. Did you ever get your case resolved? He tried ripping me off, even though I went right to the guy's house to buy the gun. I reported him (Cliff Crippen) to the local police, and they said it was a private matter. But, because "Local Mailers" is not a licensed FFL, the Police Chief was reporting him to the ATF. I ended up getting the refund that I was owed, and the ATF called me for info. They said that they and the Illinois State Police were conducting a criminal investigation into this guy. If you want, contact me offline (package at engineer dot com) and I can give you some additional information.

    Mike F

  8. #7
    GuncoHolic Bolt2Bounce2's Avatar
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    No I never did get any resolution...nor any money back... that is great to hear Karma works sometimes... thanks for the info...maybe I need to call the local postmaster about it... B2B

  9. #8
    Gunco Rookie lthobbes's Avatar
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    Sep 2012
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    Default Got ripped off on armslist

    I bought a Remmington 1100 on armslist- this was the lying stealing seller
    LJ Yock
    512 ALICE St.
    Waycross georgia

    he sent the shotgun with an extra spring (good)
    Shotgun had a barrel that did not pass gunsmith or my inspection (bad)
    He did not include the sling he specifically listed with the shotgun (bad)
    he refused to pay for the $35 for reem the barrel (bad)
    he promised to send the sling after notifying him of his failure to send it, he claimed he would send it, but he never did send it (bad)

    SOO- He did not give me the sling I paid for, and he wrote me and told me he would-
    So basically he is a liar and a thief

    The shotgun was recieved with an extra spring, however I noticed the front of the barrel was chewed up and the sling he specifically listed to be included with the sale was not there. Upon seeing the chewed up front of the barrel the gunsmith used a measurement tool and found there was a burr in the barrel. This guy was completely unreasonable and tried to tell me that only if I shot the shotgun first, then had the gunmithing done and proved there was a 5% difference would he pay for the gunsmithing. What planet does this guy live on?
    Then he told me he was goign to send the sling he did not send. He never did. Keeping property I paid for is theft plain and simple. Don't deal with this liar and thief.
    Oh yeah, he also theatened me if I slandered his name- Learn the first amendment LJ YOCK- YOU HAVE PROVEN THAT YOU ARE A LIAR AND A THIEF!
    I am happy to send all corespondence proving my case to anyone who needs the evidence not to deal with this guy.

  10. #9
    Gunco Member valk's Avatar
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    Aug 2006
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    first post and already crying like a baby

  11. #10
    GuncoHolic Sprat's Avatar
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    5 (100%)


    one site that is activity naming the names, Ip addresses and mailing addresses is sturmgewher, with the depression we are in, these scumbags are turning up on evey web site. be very careful the main group are the nigerians, ghosting others ads then under selling the cost, asking you to mail to another state, asap cause their are others about to purchase.
    several individuals from gunbroker, armslist and guns america have been revealed

    buyer beware, if the deal seems to good it is!!!
    Sprat and sprat1 are one and the same.

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