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bumpstock/slidestock review

3K views 22 replies 9 participants last post by  warnerd 
#1 ·
guys while ive got this at WG im gonna cross post it here for those of you that dont go there...



here we go:

DemonDaves Bumpstock came in and this is the one we talked about here.

they are now using 2 different names for the same stock and lets put them to the test and do away with some rumors right off.

FIRST:

the approval, if you read the approval letter you'll see how this got approved and why.

THERE IS NOTHING MECHANICAL OR ACTIVATED IN THIS AT ALL! ITS JUST A STOCK.

huh? thats right. its just a stock. pretty slick in how you use it but we'll get to that in a bit.

this is just an opinion and you know what thats worth.

it would be very hard to justify a retraction of this, as its quite literally just a slide over stock. all the work happens from the USER.

its not hard to learn how to use it, but its very easy to use it wrong and get NOTHING. just as easy as it is to run thru a mag with it.

a little practice and it will be a lot of fun.

for testing purposes im gonna loan DemonDave my 5.45x39 AR upper and then we'll move over and try it on one of Mad Machinists TOK AR uppers too.

these are the most affordable to shoot and will answer both speed and reliability questions with mid and light range ammo.


about the "stock":

solidly made and a nice look and not too bad of a grip either. it does limit how much LOP adjustment you have but hey nothing is totally free is it?

its all Zytel style material and comes with good instructions and a copy of the BATF letter.

am NOT gonna get into the proprietary function or "how to" of this..... but its amazingly simple if one has a polymer casting set up.

why someone hadnt thought of this before is totally beyond me.

they stuck to the K.I.S.S. approach and its refreshing to know that everything doesnt have to be engineered to death to work.


now about those instructions...

just follow them and its a 10 minute install max. they even give you a "how to" on using it to get you in the right direction.

ok heres the video on the 5.45.

first impressions?

just takes a little practice and it seems that i cant get more than a 10 round burst on camera no matter how hard i try. just need more practice ;D

DemonDave is camera shy, but he ripped a good 20round run right out of it and would have had more if it werent for the FTE that got a double feed rammed in it at the same time.

thats when he turned it over to me to get the video..

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



you'll notice in the video that most of those are 2-3 round bursts and then there is a 6 round and something else..

there is also a no reset that was just me holding too much forward pressure and not allowing the gun to cycle.

maybe with a little practice it will be worth DemonDaves money, but my first impressions are that its not going to be a bit more challenging to get the "run" on a TOK AR.
 

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#2 ·
ok first up is the TOK AR test.

folks this upper runs flawlessly and is a Mad Machinist style upper... i put over a hundred rounds thru this today with this bumpstock and this is what i got..

this is UNEDITED as it happened videos of the ones that i got ANYTHING to run with.
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

[video=youtube;dsLH1NWUZ7Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsLH1NWUZ7Y#normal]MOV02868.MPG]YouTube - MOV02868.MPG[/video]

& this one:
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

[video=youtube;t2mlu1ujMpk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2mlu1ujMpk#normal]MOV02869[/video]

CONCLUSION: it works and its all about how long you want to play with it on these light recoil rounds to get the right touch with it. im not a very patient person.

so that brings us to THIS video:

7.62x39 AR

it instantly ran as there is a lot more recoil to work with and that is gonna be the key, more recoil can overcome the "strongarm" syndrome that im evidently giving it...

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

[video=youtube;4MLk1D_KJlo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MLk1D_KJlo#normal]MOV02870.MPG[/video]

as you can see it works in a nice burst on x39 ammo.

instant conclusion on this toy tell me that the stronger rounds like this and the 5.45 work a lot better than the TOK or the 5.7 and i couldnt get it to ever work with the 22lr set up.

so all in all?

the product works but it will take you some shooting to get it down in operation and honestly i think with another mag or 3 on the x39 it would be ripping thru .....

quality made? YES

easy to install? YES

easy to remove? YES

fit 5 different "brands"? YES

work on all calibers? NO stick with stronger rounds

ease of use? HMMMMM time and practice is all i can say there.

worth the price? Jury's still out on that one.
 
#4 ·
I don't see how it can be legal when the Atkins Accelerator wasn't, they seem to do the same thing?


Oh and try not to hold the foregrip to tight, let it glide on your hand, don't grip it.
 
#5 ·
ah Coils you didnt even read my post did ya? LOL

they dont work any where the same.

there are no moving parts, there is NO acceleration or alteration of the fire rate.

this is the principle that their approval letter is based around and why Sterlin Nixon signed off on it...

its nothing more than a stock and anything that actually happens with it is caused by the MANUAL action of the operator not the stock itself.

it takes some getting used to even to get it to work as you can see in the vids.

this is not a "for or against" post. its just a review of the product by me and showing you guys what ive found out so far and the results.

s
 
#6 ·
I read some of it :D

The Akin's (yes I spelled it wrong before) worked in the same manor, the receiver bounces in the stock, in this case with the AR it's a pistol grip & stock assembly rather then an entire stock.
So what your saying it's not spring loaded, it just floats?



I'm not bashing it and understand your just giving your two cents, the Akin's thing just popped into my head right away, because that's what it reminds me of.
 
#7 ·
I bet bluejack could make that scream....he's pretty good at bump firing, but he's a tight ass and won't buy the ammo to do it.

I think the stock is probably good, you just need more practice with it.

All of the problems you had were typical bump firing problems.
 
#8 ·
This device will not work without manually pushing the foregrip forward, there is no spring to do that, it will not work automatically like the Atkins type device did. According to their sales department, if this goes over well, they will consider models for the Mini 14, Mini 30, AR 10, and, as they put it " the new platforms as well"
 
#9 ·
ok just got back.

YES you actually hold the gun BY the forestock and you hold the grip and rearstock against your shoulder with the right hand and the stock never moves...

the gun is actually recoiling into you just like any other bump firing and your left hand holds pressure against/forward and that is the moving part (you).

we actually have 2 of these sitting here now.

and like 555th said... im actually a pretty good bumpfire-er the regular way, this takes a little getting used to the change over.

but after several hundred rounds of TOK another 50 of 22lr, 100 or so of 5.45 and 100 of x39 its easy to see that the higher energy rounds are MUCH MUCH easier to make this work with.

is it worth $350 is what we are trying to figure out.

555th: i can bring one of them with me next time i come over if you want and everybody can play with it... DEMONDAVE wont mind or if you guys dont care i'll bring him too.

s
 
#11 ·
hey stranger!

glad to see your still ALIVE!

and now you know why i let DemonDave spend his money on it, i can test it and use it and not pay for it. :-0
 
#13 · (Edited)
I tried posting this at WG but I don't think it came out

found this at Ar-15
and a great thread at Gunsnet New AR stock that facilitates aimed bump-firing

between Bill Atkin and the members there
very informative about patent infringment and what is illegal the picture as posted is for inforamtional/educational information only as this mod includes a spring like the atkins

sprat
 

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#15 · (Edited)
I have read bill atkins patent and I kinda doubt the moded AR-15 stock actually infringes on his patent. It may somewhat fall into one of the claims, as would many recoil reducing stocks.
Patents have limits, otherwise all life as we know it would already be patented.

I do totally think that ATF will come down on anyone that makes and sells stocks that allow easy bump firing. So who has the patent on something that can't be sold for profit seems rather irrelevant. (hey maybe they won't shut the new guy down, who knows).

I also know that the Modified AR-15 stock would NOT be approved by the ATF. So just avoid it. EDIT: I am not referring to the slide stock, I was talking about the one with the spring. Springs in a bumpfire device does not go well with the atf.


Atkins patent mostly talks about movement in relation to the finger stops. I read the whole thing through as I made my own design of stock, that is in public view and has been for two years. Mine does not fall within his patent claims from my careful reading of it.

But I also DON'T make mine anymore nor will I. I was told to stop selling them and I did (no not by Bill Atkins).
 
#16 ·
yes its a shame that AKins is a bitter guy and now wants to take it out on the very group of people who made him the money to start with.

US.

thats what its all about with him, it went way past "his idea" and its all about he cant make money with it, so he wants to make sure that no one else can either.

im trying to avoid the conversation on how people in our hobby profit from us and then want to complain if anyone else does besides them and thats why ive avoided the akins part of this conversation on several sites in the last two days.

whether its AKINS vs Steve and his "spring" bumper, or Emory vs Ryland & Lou & Pirate on cranks, or one 1919 plate maker verses another, or even this new approach...

the only people this hurts is the purchaser when they cause someone to lose their stuff!

i didnt start this thread on any of the sites for that debate... but everyone wants to keep taking it there.


the bumpstock/slide stock IS approved and comes with a copy of the letter.
 
#17 ·
If my understanding of the Atkins situation is correct, he has every right to be bitter and pissed. He invented a device, got it approved and then a bunch of internet "experts" debated it's legality. Then one of them contacted the batf about it and they revisited their approval and disapproved it. the same thing happened to the auto sim device. At times we are our own worst enemy.
 
#18 ·
dutigaf aka sdk1968
quote
"i didnt start this thread on any of the sites for that debate... but everyone wants to keep taking it there."

I assume you are refering to me since you deleted my post at wg cause your a moderator there, but not here
sorry this displeases you, not my intent. I am only try to inform the general community, when I saw a post in this subject matter, I posted the gunsnet thread link for all to see and read and determine for themselves, not just your review. but why this make and not the atkins or other homemade designs, thats what these sites are for sharing information
not censoring them
 
#19 ·
your post was not deleted we dont EVER delete a post. just because YOU cant see it doesnt mean its deleted.

it had nothing to do with the product or the review so it was moved.

your not the only person who thinks these types of threads should always be about what Mr Akins wants or likes.

i dont give a flying fuk at a rolling doughnut about what AKins wants, likes or even thinks.

this thread was started as a review of a product that is not like his or anything he could possibly "Think" or claim is his.

your right these sites are for sharing information and thats what i did by creating the thread.

information & testing being shared.

not sharing Akins opinion & bitterness on a patent or a business tactic that has nothing to do with this device at all.

im one of the best around at hijacking a thread, so dont worry will return the favor if you ever take the time to start a thread, do a review, supply the ammo, test products for people and then go to the effort of posting it at multiple sites so that everyone can see it before they spend their money on it.

could have very well left this off this site and saved the effort, but wanted to share the information & experience..

not listen to more crap that we've all heard 20 times showing how bitter Akins is.

you think Steve(AWSIM) isnt upset over his device? sure he is. He's still a friendly guy and loves this community. you dont hear him pissing and moaning at every turn, even though his own community got his device pulled...

same for Lou (ohio black sheep) & Ryland they make awesome crankfires.. do you hear them whining & pissing on the community because Emory makes them too? NO.

so you wanna take this a different direction? there it is.

your lead in.... take it..

go start your own thread about it. do some research. make some posts in it. put in some effort for the community......

then maybe i'll drop in and change it to a discussion on how chunky triggers hurt my finger or why theres no such thing as a "real" patent anymore.
 
#20 ·
dutigaf, speaking for myself, I appreciate the effort you have put in to the Slide Fire stock review. Everytime this subject gets brought up, I see this issue being rehashed like it just happened. But, aside from that, you did a good thing, and do not let any of this negative collateral "shrapnel" get to you. Many appreciate your, and those like you, efforts at reviewing new items. After all, we do not have a "Consumer Reports" type resource in our hobby and must rely on some good natured people like yourself to provide this
 
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