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Thread: ACCURIZING THE AK

  1. #131
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    LIKE I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR OVER 5 YEARS MY GUN SHOT NO DIFFERANT WITH OR WITHOUT A GAS SYSTEM. YOU CAN LEAVE THE GB OFF AND JUST LET THE ROD HANG INTO SPACE AND IT WILL SHOOT PRETTY MUCH THE SAME. I SHOT MINE THE FIRST YEAT WITH NO GB OR TUBE. I JUST CYCLED IT BY HAND FOR OVER 1000 ROUNDS.

    THE STIFFER SPRING MIGHT MAKE A DIFFERANCE BY LOCKING THE BOLT TIGHTER ON A TIGHT CHAMBER. THATS THE ONLY THING i CAN THINK OF AND THATS NOT THE CASE WITH A MILITARY CHAMBER.

  2. #132
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Could you explain more about fitting and lapping the RSB to eliminate stress?

    ON MY RSB i CUT OFF THE OLD RING WERE THE BARREL WENT THROUGH , i BORED A HOLE IN A PICE OF SQUARE STOCK THAT WAS ABPOUT 1" THE SIZE MY BARREL STEPPED UP TO AFTER LEAVING THE TRUNION. THE RSB WAS WELDED ONTO THIS BLOCK IN A MILLED SLOT. THE LAPPING TOOK LACE WERE I BUTTED THE RSB AND THE TUNNION TOGETHER. i MADE SURE THAT THOSE TWO PIECES MADE 100% CONTACT IN A NON STRESSED WAY. I PRESSED THE RSP TIGHT TOP THE TRUNION AND PINNED IT AFTER BEING CETAIN THE RSB WAS NOT PUTTING SIDE PRESSURE ON THE BARREL. YOU CANT DO THIS WITH A STANDARD RSB AS IT DOES N OT TOUCH THE TRUNION. MY GOAL WAS TO MAKE THE BARREL FLOAT FORWARD OF THE RSB. iF i THOUGHT i COULD WELD THE RSB TO THE TRUNION WITH OUT DESTROYING THE TEMPER I WOULD HAVE. BY LAPPING AND PINNING UNDER PRESSURE I MADE IT AS CLOSE TO ACTING LIKE ONE PART AS POSSABLE. IF MAKES A DIFFERANCE i DONT KNOW BUT THE GUN SHOT VERY WERY WELL.

    I HAVE SHOT UNDER 1/2" GROUPS THERE IS A PICTURE HRE OF ONE OF THEM. i CANT DO IT EVERY TIME. I LIKELY COULD NOT DO IT EVERY TIME WITH A TRUE BENCH REST GUN iM NOT THAT GOOD OF A SHOT. THE GUN HAS DONE IT SEVERAL TIMES WHEN THE BARREL WAS FRESH.

  3. #133
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    HERE IS A PIC OF THE RSB, NOTE THE LARGE SQUARE BLOCK THE OLD RSB SETS INTO.


  4. #134
    3/6 Infantry mtdew's Avatar
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    I cut the bbl ring off the RSB I used for my medium-heavy grendel build, then welded the RSB to the rear trunion. I didnt do it to gain accurracy, the RSB bbl ring was too small for the bbl dia. and I didnt want to get into making a new ring or anything. So anyway I welded it for a coupla seconds, let it cool, welded a coupla more seconds,cooled, till it was welded compleatly, that way I didnt overheat the trunion and draw the temper. I wouldnt weld it in one pass. It works great, no issues.
    "NA BEAN DON CHAT GUN LAMHAINN"
    Clan MacPherson
    "CREAG DHUBH"!

  5. #135
    3/6 Infantry mtdew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    I considered welding my rsb to he trunion but im hesiatant to weld on any trunion its possably just my opinion but its my face that goes with it. If I was 100% certain I could not affect the temper Id be all for it. I guess I just go the 100% sure way in those areas. I did look long and hard at it and im not saying it cant or shouldent be done just that I persoanly dont feel comfortable with it right now.

    You got any picks of your set up????? Id like to see were you welded it. Again im not slaming you just stating what im personaly comfortable at this time. Id like to see what you did. originaly i was planing on welding the rsb to the trunion i got scared and didnt.

    I looked at possably dove tailing a trunion and then moddifying a RSB to attach to that also at one point on a yugo trunion also .
    biggun u know I respect your opinions, I'm always glad to hear from u, considering I steal alot of your ideas! Anyway I dont blame u for being a bit hesitant about welding on the trunion. If I werent so lazy I'd do it different. But I've been welding for more than 30 years and I've developed techniques to enable me to not get a part hot enough to draw the temper, plus I use heat stop paste. The lug area and the bbl pin area never gets so hot that u cant touch it. Heck it doesnt even get warm. So anyway here is the pic. BTW, I do this with a mig, may get too hot with a stick welder.
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    "NA BEAN DON CHAT GUN LAMHAINN"
    Clan MacPherson
    "CREAG DHUBH"!

  6. #136
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    No problem. I just wont do it personaly. that barrel pin holds as much force as the lugs and I dont like getting that area hot either. Im pretty stuborn on the welding of stressed parts . its obvious you have put a lot though into it and have taken steps to reduce heat to the rest of the trunion. . Im more concerned about the guy who started to weld yesterday and has a buzz box. If I was rich Id design my own trunion from scratch and it would have a area to screw a custom rsb with a rail directly to it or possably incorperate all the the parts together.


    I havent personaly built a PSL yet. If i ever get a kit id like to do a heavy barrel version myself maybe in a 6.5MM version. i would think that it would be pretty much the same as doing a AK. that long thin barrel might benifit from a tuner or something. It would likely be trial and error.
    Id likely do a .308 bore if i was going to do a 7.6x54 barrel and hand load.

    there is no reason I can think of that a PSL with a quality barrel and good ammo and all the crap I do to my AK,s would not shot sub 1" or better. Id likely be looking at around a 22" or 24" barrel with a lot more meat to it. that bigger hotter round is going to heat up the barrel even faster than a x39

  7. #137
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    WOW WHAT A REALLY REALLY GREAT THREAD (OK ENOUGH OF THAT ) IT ONLY TOOK ME 2 HOURS TO FIND IT AGIAN. I HAD TO LOOK UP MY OWN PROFILE THEN GO THROUGH MY OWN THREADS TO FIND IT BECAUSE I CAN NOT GET THE SEARCH HERE TO WORK FOR ANY THING. I MADE A FEW COMMENTS ON NOT SO OLD THREADS WHILE LOOKING FOR THIS)

    ANY WAY IM BACK IN THE SHOP AND THERE WILL BE A NEW GUN BY EARLY JUNE OF NEXT YEAR. IM GOING TO THROW EVERY THING I CAN AT IT.

    IT WILL HAVE A TUNABLE TUNNER I HAVE BEEN STUDING GENE BEGGS DESIGN. THE RECIVER IS GOING TO LIKELY BE STAMPED BUT IT WILL BE HEAVIER SO I CAN CONTROLL THE PLAY IN THE CARIIER BETTER. i PLAN TO ELEMINATE ALMOST ALL PLAY.
    IM SHOOTING FOR LESS THAN .001 BOLT/CARRIER PLAY WHEN THE BOLT IS LOCKED INTO THE TRUNION. IM GOING TO EITHER BORE A 5.45 CARRIER TO A SMALL STEM OR POSSABLY DECREASE THE CARRIERS BOLT BORE WITH HARD CHROME OR POSSABLY SQUEASE IT DOWN AN HONE IT.

    I HAVENT GOT A CALIBUR IN MIND YET BUT IT WILL BE BUILT ON A AKM PLATFORM WITH A TWO LUG BOLT ( UNLESS I CAN FIND A THREE LUG SAIGIA 308 BOLT SEPERATLY) IM LOOKING AT A LOT MORE SPEED THAN A 223 CAN GIVE ME SO I HAVE A FEW IDEAS. A MUCH MODIFED PSL BOLT IF I CAN GET MY HANDS ON ONE WOULD ALLOW A FEW THINGS BUT ITS NOT A SURE THING. THIS WILL NOT BE A LONG RANGE RIG IM LOOKING AT THE SOME OF THE 200 YARD STUFF THE 6MM PPC CAN DO IN BENCH REST. I WANT TO GET AS ACCURATE AS I CAN. IM LOOKING AT WHAT CLASSES I COULD COMPETE IN AN WERE. I HAVE NEVER SHOT IN COMPETITION BUT ID LIKE TO TRY AN ID LIKE TO GET MY SON INVOLVED MORE IN SHOOTING AN HE IS A GOOD SHOT. SO IM LOOKING A 6MM PPC OR MAYBE A 6MM BEGGS( 6MM-220 RUSSIAN WITH SLIGHT NECK CHANGES)

    THE BARREL WILL BE FLOATED SIMULARLY TO MY ORIGINAL BUILD BUT iM LOOKING AT THE HAND GUARD BRACE BEING ON THE SIDE VS BOTTOM OF THE RECIVER THE FORE END WILL BE A WIDE FLAT TARGET TYPE AN THE STOCK WILL BE A MUCH DIFFERANT SET UP iM LOOKING AT A SKELITON DESIN THAT GIVES A STEADY TAPER TO THE BUTT SO IT WILL WORK WELL I THE BAGS AND ELIVASTION CAN BE EASLY ADJUSTED BY MOVING THE REAR BAG FORWRD AN AFT. MY CURRENT SET UP IS ABITCH AS YOU CANT JUST SLIDE THE BAG BAG TO RAISE THE BARREL ON A BIPOD OR FRONT BAG.

    I HAVE AN IDEA OF NOT DETERMING THE GAS BLOCK POSITION UNTILL I CAN SHOOT IT WITH NO GAS AN DETERMINE WERE THE BARREL LIKES THE GB THE BEST. I HAVE ALSO A IDEA TO SLOT THE GB PORT SO IT CAN BE SLIDE A INCH OR SO BACK AN FORTH TO ALLOW ME TO TUNE IT ONCE THE GAS PORT IS DRILLED. IM CONVINCED MY CURRENT RIG SHOOTS BETTER WITH THE BLOCK ON SO IM CONVINCED THE BLOCK IS WORKING AS A ACCIDENTAL TUNNER . THIS WAS DERIVED FROM SHOOTING IT ORIGINAL WITH NO GB FOR 1000 ROUNDS AND IT SHOOTING BETTER ON A USED BARREL ONCE THE HOLE WAS DRILLED AN THE BLOCK WAS INSTALLED.

    I HAVE A IDEA FOR A GB THAT DONT REGUIRE A HOLE IN THE BARREL BUT ACTUALY IN A MUZZEL DEVICE THAT FLOATS IN FRONT OF THE MUZZEL. i HAVE NO IDEA IF THIS IS FEASABLE BUT IF YOU CAN GET A 2" BARREL PISTOL TO CYCLE iD THING A MUZZEL BRAKE OF SOME SORT MIGHT BE ABLE TO CATCH ENOUGH GAS TO CYCLE THE ACTION. YEA THERE IS ALOT TO FIGURE OUT AN IT WILL BE UGLY. POSSABLY A 26" LONG GAS BLOCK THAT FLOATS FREE OF THE BARREL NOT SURE IF A PISTON NEEDS TO BE THAT LONG OR NOT. THIS IS JUST A THOUGHT IN MY HEAD. MAYBE A FOREEND THAT IS ALSO PART GB. THIS MAY BE A IDEA TO TRY IN A EXISTING GUN FOR R&D I HAVE NOT RULED OUT NO SEMIAUTO AT ALL. MAYBE JUST A SINGLE SHOT. THE IDEA OF USING A EXTRA HEAVY RECOIL SPRING IS APPEALING TO ALLOW MATCH CRADE AMMO CHAMBER IN A MATCH GRADE CHAMBER . THE IDEA OF A EXTRA HEAVY SPRING THAT WILL NEED A BIGGER GAS PORT IS NOT APPEALING.

    I HAVE BEEN LURKING ON BENCH REST CENTRAL ( I CANT SEEM TO GET REGISTERED THERE.) AND REALLY PAYING ATENTION TO WHAT THOSE GUYS DO WHEN THEY BUILD A GUN. THERE ALL RUNNING CHAMBERS WITH TIGHT NECKS AND VERY VERY TIGHT BOLT CLEARANCES AND LOTS OF ATTENTION TO BARREL HARMONICS AN FINDING ACCRACY NODES IN THERE LOADS AT CERTAIN SPEEDS. ANY HOW IM LOOKING AT MY SPARE PARTS PILE AND BARRELS AN GOING HMMM TODAY.

  8. #138
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    YOU CAN ACTUALY REALLY DO A LOT WITH AMMO IF YOU HAND LOAD TO GET YOUR BRASS TO FIT YOUR CHAMBER

    I DONT RESIZE COMPLETLY . I SET UP MY LOADS SO THEY JUST FIT. THERE IS A TON OF SLOP IN A FACTORY CHAMBER PERTICUALRY THE NECK AN BODY SOME TIMES OVER .010" IN A GOOD HUNTING RIFLE THE NECK IS AROUND .003 CLEARANCE . THE THROAT IS A ROUND .001. ON A TARGET RIFLE THE NECK CLEARANCE IS LIKE UNDER .001 AN THE THROAT IS LIKE .00025. BODY CLEARANCE IS SLEDOM MORE THAN .002.

    WHEN YOU SEE SPLIT CASES FROM A AK IS GENERALY THOUGHT THE AMMO IS CHEAP AN POOR QUALITY. IMO IS BECAUSE THE BRASS IS STRETCHING A MILE .

    THERE IS NOT A LOT YOU CAN DO WITH THE NECK AN THROAT ON A FACTROY CHAMBER UNLESS YOU SET THE BARREL BACK AN IF YOU GOT A CHROME BORE YOUR OUT OF LUCK GENERALY. SETTING THE THE BARREL BACK IS TOUGH BECAUSE THE BARREL IS PINED IN AN A OVER SIZE BARREL PIN WILL ONLY GET YOU SO FAR AN NOT ENOUGH TO REALLY CHANGE MUCH BY RUNNING IN A CHAMBER GROUND TO TIGHTER SPECS. I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED TO TRY IT ON A GOOD YUGO BARREL TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY GAINS TO BEHAD BUY SETTIG THE BARREL BACK A MM AN TIGHTENNG UP JUST THE VERY END OF THE NECK AN THROAT. THE ISSUE I SEE IS THE FREE BORE IS SO DAMM LONG ON THESE GUNS THAT ANY CHANGE WOULD NOT REALLY AFFECT HOW THE BULLET WAS POSITIONED INT HE BARREL BECAUSE IT WOULD BE SO FAR FORWARD. YOU MIGHT GET SOME HELP IN THE NECK AREA YOU WOULD GET SOME PRETTY WEIRD LOOKING BRASS WITH A STEPPED NECK AFTER IT WAS FIRED.

    I WISH I COULD GET SOME OF THE US MADE BARRELS THAT ARE CHEAP UNCHAMBERED SO I COULD PERSONALY CHAMBER THEM WITH A REAMER THAT MATCHES COMMERCIAL DIES BETTER AN REDUCES ALL THE UNNEEDED SLOP IN A CIVILIAN OWNED SEMI AUTO. YOU SIMPLY DONT NEED ALL THAT SLOP.

    I AM NOT REALLY SURE HOW LOOSE THE CHAMBERS ARE ON THE US MADE BARRRLS BUT IF ITS ANY THING LIKE THE FACTORY CHAMBER THEN THERE ARE GAINS TO BE MADE. i DONT FEEL RELIABILTY WILL BE MUCH WORSE EXCEPT IF YOU SHOOTING IN STUPID CONDITIONS OR IN A WAR.

    THIS SPRING I SHOT OVER 800 ROUNDS OF 223 IN MY VARMINT AK AN NEVER CLEANED THE BORE ONCE. THE BARREL IS NEAR THE END OF ITS LIFE AN i JUST WANTED TO SEE HOW FAR I COULD GO WITH OUT ISSUES. IT NEVER JAMMED ONCE AN STILL EXTRACTED AN FEED. WAS GETTING A LITTLE HARDER TO CHAMBER A ROUND TOWARD THE END. THAT IS WITH A MATCH CHAMBER IN 223 THAT DOSENT HAVE HALF THE CASE TAPER OF A X39.

    IM LOOKING AT REBARREL OPTIONS FOR THIS GUN NOW AN A 6MM BENCH REST IS LOOKING PRETTY GOOD. I NEED MORE HORSE POWER FOR THE 1000 YARD STUFF.

    ANY WAY PLAYING WITH YOUR DIES CAN MAKE A DIFFERANCE. SET THEM SO THERE IS LESS PLAY ESPECIALY IF YOU GOT A LOT OF HEAD SPACE. THE BETTER THE ROUND FITS THE LESS THE RECIVER AN BOLT AN OTHER STUFF AFFECTS ACCURACY IMO

  9. #139
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    There is a 6mm bench rest version currently being constructed.

    I have had a tread in the calibur conversion now for a few months.
    I have a custom designed reamer that is very close to a 6mm BRX. the BRX is a 6mm Norma bench rest with the neck shoulder blow forward an a reduced length neck.

    My reamer will allow me to do a 6mm BRX but I can run it in deeper an get a
    43mm case an it will keep the neck longer to allow bullets to be seated better in a auto loader.

    I plan on using cut down 308 brass for most of the shooting but it will also allow me to use 6.5x47 Lupia brass cut down as well for true bench rest quality ammo.

    im building a bolt action Bench target gun on this as well.

    I have been consdierng a bull pup again with a eletric trigger. there is a guy making an selling them for the 10-22. they seem to be legal from all the research i can find on the subject. a bull pup would allow a 30" barrel to be handled a lot easier an balance out better.

    the reamer is here, the dies are here, the bullets are here, i have barrel blanks to start testing with here, brass is on the way , a out side neck turner is on the way, the reciver is here, i have a m70 trunion bolt an carrier to work off of.

    it will get built. its onthe bench now.

  10. #140
    Indian Admin Winn R's Avatar
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    ok -- we're trying to whittle the stickies down so folks can find the 25% good among the attaboys and me toos and why you doing this anyway and sell me that part.

    I won't get it done tonight but will get going on it tomorrow. There's alot of good stuff here. My only contribution, most already covered, is a loose gas tube, slightly short piston, anchor the scope on the trunnion not receiver, hammer and trigger pins in hardened or reinforced holes and don't rest the barrel end on the front sandbag.

    Best regards
    There is no nonsense so errant that it cannot be made the creed of the vast majority by adequate governmental action. -- Bertrand Russell


    "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Robert J. Hanlon

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