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Thread: ACCURIZING THE AK

  1. #21
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I HAVE BEEN GIVING A LOT OF THOUGHT TO WHAT A ULTIMATE TARGET, MONEY NO OBJECT AK WOULD BE. HERE ARE A FEW IDEAS.

    1. I WOULD START WITH A MILLED RECIVER LIKE THE ONE DPH IS COMING OUT WITH BUT CUSTOM MADE. I WOULD WANT IT WITH THICKER RAILS SO THE CARRIER COULD BE FITTED FOR LESS PLAY AND HEAVIER AROUND THE LUGS LIKE A BULGED YUGO . INSTEAD OF THE NORMAL 23MM PRESS FIT BARREL I WANT TO BE ABLE TO GO WITH A 1 1/16"X16 TPI (REMINGTON 700) OR SIMULAR BARREL THREAD SIZE. THE AXIS PIN HOLES WOULD BE BIGGER FOR LARGER DIAMITER PINS. THER MAG WELL OPENING WOULD BE LONGER AS WELL.

    2. THE CARRIER WOULD BE A SMALL STEM OPENED UP AND TIGHTLY FITTED TO A LARGE STEM BOLT. OR A LARGE STEM CARRER OPENED UP AND BUSHED TO ELEMINATE ANY SLOP. IT WOULD BE FITTED TO THE RECIVER. AND POSSABLY SET UP TO GET TIGHTER THE BOLT CLOSED. IT WOULD BE A LH CHARGE HANDEL WITH A BIG KNOB.

    3 THE BOLT WOULD BE A THREE LUG SAGIA OR VEPR TYPE WITH ALL THREE LUGS FITTED TO THE RECIVER IN PERFECT TRUE TO THE BARREL CENTER LINE. THE FIRING PIN HOLE ID WOULD BE REDUCED AND A TITANUM PIN WOULD BE USED. THE PIN WOULD BE SPRING LOADED.

    4 THE BARREL WOULD BE A NO TAPER HEAVY AN LONG KREIGER OR LILJA OR OTHER HIGH QUALITY BENCH REST TYPE BARREL IN THE OPTIMUM TWIST FOR THE ROUND BEING USED. NO TAKE OFF STUFF HERE. WILL NEED ABOUT 5 OF THEM TO DETERMINE THE BEST PORT LOCATION FOR THE BEST HARMONICS. TRIAL AND ERRROR WILL BE INVOVED HERE. SINCE THE RECIVER IS THREADED MIGHT AS WELL GET A COUPLE DIFFERANT CALIBURES AS WELL. A MATCH CHAMBER WOULD OF COURSE BE USED AND THE FREE BORE TIGHTLY CONTROLED.

    5. AS FAR AS A REAR SIGHT BLOCK/ SCOPE MOUNT, SOME EXPERIMANTATION WILL BE NEEDED TO DETERMINE IF THE SCOPE IS TO BE MOUNTED ON THE BARREL VIA A RSB OR ON THE MILLED RECIVER VIA BOLT ACTION BENCH REST STYLE. WITH A MILLE RECIVER AND THREAED BARREL IT MIGHT BE BETTER ON THE RECIVER. ON A STAMPED IT WILL LIKELY BE BETTER ON THE BARREL, LIKE MY VARMIT BUILD.

    6. THE GAS BLOCK WILL NEED TO BE EXPERIMENTED WITH AS WELL. IM THINKING ALUMINUM OR TITANIUM WITH A FLOATING GAS TUBE. THIS IS A AREA WERE MULTIPUL PARTS WILL NEED TO BE BUILT AND THERE PLACE MENT ON THE BARREL TESTED.

    7. THE TRIGGER GROUP WILL NEED TO BE A VERY CUSTOM ADJUSTIABLE WITH A LIGHTER HAMMER AND BETTER SPRING FOR DECREASED LOCK TIME. THE LESS IT MOVES THE GUN THE BETTER. IT WILL HAVE LARGER TRIGGER PINS FITTED AS TIGHTLY AS POSSABLE THIS WOULD ALLOW LESS COCKING OF THE PIN AND MAKE FINE TUNING IT EASIER. I ALSO WANT A TANTAL OR AR STYLE SELECTOR. AND ADD A LARGER MAG RELEASE AS WELL

    8. THE STOCK IS A QUESTION MARK FOR ME. IF MILLED RECIVER WERE USED THEN POSSABLY A FITTED STOCK LIKE A BOLT ACTION USES THAT THE RECIVER IS BEDDED TO MIGHT HELP WITH A LONG FORE GRIP LIKE A BOLT ACTION. CERTAINLY A FLOATING FORE GRIP IF IT IS 2 PIECE. IT WILL NEED ALL THE DODADS THAT BENCH REST GUYS USE AS FAR AS CHEEK WELD ADJUSTABKLE LENGTH ECT.

    9. OPTICS ARE GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE HERE TAKE YOUR PICK FROM WHAT EVER THE BENCH REST CROWD USE. FIGURE AROUND $2000.

    10. CALIBURE. THIS IS UP TO HOW YOU WANT TO COMPETE. I MENTIONED A LONGER THAN NORMAL MAG WELL, THAT IS SO A CUSTOM 223 MAG THAT WILL HOLD 80 GRAIN BULLETS SEATED FULLY OUT CAN BE USED. THE AK IS NOT RESTRICTED TO A PREDETERMINED MAG WELL LIKE THE AR. THIS NEEDS TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.

    ROUNDS LIKE THE 22 & 6MM PPC OR BENCH REST COULD BE CHAMBERD. OR FOR LONG RANGE A 260 REMINGTON OR WHAT EVER WIZZ BANG ROUND THERE IS. 6.5X-284 IF THE RECIVER WAS MADE IN A 308 LENGTH. I HAVE BEEN KICKING AROUND A FAST TWIST 22-250 SHOOTING 80 GR BULLETS.

    WE WILL NEED SPONSORS FOR THIS GUN AS WITH OPTICS WERE LOOKING AT AROUND $3000-$4000 (ANY RECIVER OR BARREL MANUFACTURES LISTENING??). I THINK THE PLATFORM COULD EASLY OUT PERFORM THE AR WITH ITS ALUMINUM RECIVER WITH THE OPTICS MOUNED ON IT. THERE HAS TO BE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF WARPING AND DISTORTION GOING ON AS THE RECIVER HEATS UP AT DIFFERANT RATES AS THE BARREL. (IM NOT A AR EXPERT) THE THE MAIN DRAW BACK I SEE WITH THE AK IS THE WAY THE BOLT ENGAGES WITH UN EVEN LUG LUGS AND ALL THE SLOP AND POSSABLE MISALINMENT. THE AR LUG SYSTEM SEEMS MORE PERCISE. IF THE CARRER SLOP AND BOLT SLOP COULD BE REDUCED THEN MAYBE THERE ARE GAINS TO BE MADE. IF THIS PROJECT DID NOT DO AROUND 1/4" GROUPS IT WOULD NOT BE WORTH IT.

    A POOR MANS WELDED MILLED RECIVER WITH A ENLARGED RE THREADED BARREL THREADS AND A GOOD BARREL WITH THE CARRER SLOTS BEING WELDED UP AND SOME BOLT WORK WOULD COME CLOSE FOR A LOT LESS. AND IS WHAT I MAY BUILD. A STAMPED WITH THICKER RAILS MIGHT WORK OUT AS WELL.

  2. #22
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Does this make sense as an upgrade?

    Cut off the front end of the gas tube [and throwing the rear half into the parts bin], and welding it [the front half] to the gas block [so its sort of like the gas tube on a late STG-58 FAL] so that when fired, the gas tube has no way to cause a different amount of pressure on the gas block, if it slightly shifts when firing...
    It would make it impossable to clean the port if required. and it would likly make it worse as it would put pressure on the barrel. I think its still best to float the tube a little and deffinatly so if you were to use a heavy barrel. However ihave noted that my AMD pistol wich has a significant amount of pressure on the tube applied by the latch were it is built up to make it not move because a scope mount is on it shoots very well and I have theoryised that the very tight tube on a very short barrel (14") with veru little forward of the gas port is some how being reinforced or the harmonics are being reduced.

    I dont think it would help to weld it but who knows?? one can simply add a shim were the latch hits to tighten it up and see if it shoots better or worse if they wish. I certinaly would be worth experimenting. all of my pistols have the scopes on the tube and there for the tube latches in very tight to keep it from moving and all of those guns will shoot 1.5" 5 shot groups or better several much better. It the tight tube helping on a light barrel weapon Im not certain. I dont have a scoped rommy rifle with a good mount off the tupe to experiment with currently. throw a feller guage under the latch and see wht happens cant hurt to try.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    . and it would likly make it worse as it would put pressure on the barrel.
    I think it would relieve pressure on the barrel,
    I couldn't find a better picture, but here,

    See how the gas tube only goes half way, sort of "cantilevered", if you did this with an AK, and had free floating handguards then the only things touching the barrel would be the receiver, and the piston, the gas tube wouldn't touch the receiver any more, sort of being a part of the barrel...

  4. #24
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I follow what your saying. I didnt relize the FAL tube didnt touch the reciver or any thing. Yes you would get the a floating set up that way.

    on my varmit build the tube is just laying on the block and the othet end is held with a bolt through a over size hole and not tigtend down. the tube can move almost a quarter inch in any direction. your set up woud still have the weight of the tube on the block but it would still float with the barrel. mine just lays on the barrel/GB. the weight of the pistion and carrier is still going to be there. what would be nice and I have tought about this some is a floating light weight piston head on the rod.
    In a perfect scenerio the piston would never hit the tube or the gas block and the tube would never touch the gas block.

    you would still have to make a acces hole to clean the port ocasionaly.

    you can remove the tube and piston comletly if you wanted and plug the port and shot it single shot to determime if ther is any advantage at all of even messing with it. as all if the gas system would be eleminated. if you see an improvement then it wold possably pay to try some things. If it dont why bother. I shot my varmit build a season with no gas block or port even drilled and I saw very little differance in accuracy. in fact my best group so far has been with the gas sytem working and shooting it semi auto.

    im building a .308x39 with a stainless remington 700 barrel in a sporting weight that is still heavier than a standard AK barrel. I plan on doing some testing with it before I add a gas system.

    I have a L1A1 block and tube an pistion that will work its way into a build and floating it like you mention is a good idea.

  5. #25
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    the pmc stuff shot good not sure its made any more I hunted with it untill I started reloading. Hand loading is the way to go if you want good groups. I dont think the US manufactures give a rats as if the stuff is very accurate or not and wolf and the other cheap importers dont.. I dont know if there are any custom loaders around that sell to the public or not. Im sure if you aproched some they might do it for you. The winchester soft points are OK for a hunting load out to 100 yards and the accuracy is way better than wolf its just not great. Id like to get some Laupa or Norma brass to play with. Im tempted to blow out some PPC brass and reform it. that would have the small primer hole and be of benchrest quality.

  6. #26
    Gunco Maniac sjohnson's Avatar
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    Prvi Partizan commercial and Yugo surplus shot well for me, but like the PMC try and find some, it's tough!
    I have a daughter. I tell her, "911 is what you dial after you're raped. 1911 is what you should have before they try."

  7. #27
    Gunco Member Oregun's Avatar
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    The floating Gas tube idea - while not truly a detached floating tube it might work - if you went shorter or shortened it.

    Here is a video of the Ultimak Gas tube (Scope mount for AK's ) Best for retaining true zero with optics).
    UltiMAK AK Gas Tube Optic Mount-- Too Short?

  8. #28
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    If i want accuracy i can whip out the rem model 700 i have. but its just a challenge to get a good consistent shooting AK.
    my varmit build will out shoot both of my Remington 700,s . my factory stock sporting weight barrel 223 wont even come close. My 308 is pretty good but I have yet to match the groups my AK has done. likely the recoil and my shooting have some thing to do with it. A good friend has a savage 223 with a identical barrel to the one on my AK and it will shoot about the same. this tells me the barrel is the key to it all.

    most of my reloading for the 7.62x39 has been with Winchester brass. I am going to try some Laupa 220 russian brass blown out for my target 7.62x39 build it should result in the best brass avaliable. it is used to make the PPC rounds and they are arguable the most accurate rounds ever developed. Impretty sure they will work I know ppc can be made from 7.62x39 so i assume it can be done the other way around.

  9. #29
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    BREAKING NEWS I INTEND TO BUILD THE FIRST EVER TWIN OR TRIPPLE GAS PORT AK!

    I am going to try MULTIPAL ports on my 17-223 varmit AK build. here is my thinking . With a barrel bore of .177 the reguired the reguied gas port diamiter to gwt this gun to cylse will be around .080. I just dont think a port over half the size of the bore is a good thing so my plan is to use two small holes or possably three. I am not sure if they will be in line or directly across from each other.

    I belive I have a three groove barrel so I could drill them the same distance down the barrel. I plan to use a GB that has a groove that encircles them. other than possablely metal fouling blocking such a small hole I see no other proplems. In 2,3 or 4 smaller holes indexed around the barrel might actually help the harmonics instead of up set them. ANY way you heard it here first TWIN PORT AK. Im sure some mall ninja will want it on therre AR,s next.

    ANY WAY JUST THINKING OUT SIDE THE BOX HERE.

  10. #30
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I did some load development. I had the best 4 shot group of any gun ever. unfortunatly a didnt do my part on # 5 and # 6 .the top target was 4 holes in one (circled)touching almost on top of each other with 50 grain nosler balistic tips. (TOP TARGET)

    the bottom target was something new im working on it was a 68 GR hornady BTHP with H 255 powder the first three holes were dead center of the target and basicaly one hole id say 3/8" group I should have quit and pulled the target but wanted to shoot the last round I had. and it came in just a little low likely my fault.

    I had some not so good results as well pierced primers on the next step up and had some really errratic groups from a load theat was the best before. remington brass seems to work much better than Winchester for some reason with identical loads. not sure why. I had the trigger set really light and did get a double possably a bump fire so back to the drawing board.

    the barrel is starting ton reguire cleanings more frequintly than before It likely starting to loose a little accuracy. although when clean it amazes me yet and Ive been shooting it 4 years.

    Taking it Praire dog hunting next week in SD looking for a 800 yard or better kill with the 68 grainers Im hoping they will buck the wind better than the 50GRs.

    the next gun will have a longer mag to handel these seated out further. the maf forces me to be almost .030 of the rifeling. I had some loads that were seated out to feed by hand but they blew the primes first shot so I quit. Im guessing they were around 60,000 PSI or more opps
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