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Thread: Legalities of building a full-auto MG

  1. #21
    Gunco Regular droog's Avatar
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    He built these in his garage.He didnt exactly get away with it he is sitting in Fed lockup right now.

  2. #22
    Gunco Regular F-Troop's Avatar
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    I don?t know whether you had this in mind when considering building a legal post-May, post-86 FA, but here goes.

    FA is a rich man?s game not only because of the cost of acquisition but also the cost of caring and feeding the toy.

    It is also a rich man?s game if you go the SOT 02/07 route. You have to be in business, be rich enough to be in business and careful enough to follow all the details and regulations of SOT status. I have a friend who started one as a retirement business and is happy to make posties for eventual demonstration/sale to the military or a law enforcement agency.

    When he makes his first one for commerce, there is a special tax (about $1700 per year- two years payment in advance) he?ll have to pay. Note, this is not the 11% excise tax on firearms. Like I said, it is now a rich man?s game.
    "MOLON LABE!!"
    Spartan King Leonidas to the Persians in response to 'Lay down your arms.'

    "COME AND TAKE THEM!"

  3. #23
    GuncoHolic WC846's Avatar
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    and here i thought you were one of those rich tycoons...
    you got to kill it to grill it...Ted Nugent



  4. #24
    Gunco Regular F-Troop's Avatar
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    Sam,
    I don?t even play one on TV.
    LOL

    "MOLON LABE!!"
    Spartan King Leonidas to the Persians in response to 'Lay down your arms.'

    "COME AND TAKE THEM!"

  5. #25
    GuncoHolic WC846's Avatar
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    thats not what these guys said...especially Wrangler Jane..
    Last edited by WC846; 01-09-2006 at 06:10 AM.
    you got to kill it to grill it...Ted Nugent



  6. #26
    GuncoHolic kernelkrink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yosuthnmasa
    Wouldn't that just be nice....possession wouldn't be illegal. So...we could start building our own. I still don't see how he got around having it and it not being registered in the database.

    There are two different laws at work here regarding new manufacture of a subgun. The conviction that got overturned in Stewart was the 86 MG ban that prevents the new manufacture of machine guns for civillian possession. IIRC, the language of the law bans ALL MACHINE GUNS, but provides that proof the MG was legally registered prior to May'86 is a positive defense. The 9th Circuit ruled that since this law was based on Congress' "Interstate Commerce" regulatory powers, Stewart's somewhat unique situation did not fall under or affect Interstate Commerce, therefore the law did not apply to his situation and his conviction was reversed.

    Basically, Stewart had built himself some STEN like MGs using mainly raw materials and unregulated parts. The court ruled that the completed MGs had never been in interstate commerce, so the law did not apply. Now, some IC based cases have won convictions on the grounds that by making your own (insert name of whatever strikes your fancy) you have "affected" IC because if you had not made your own, you would have bought one that had been in IC. Again, in Stewart's unique case, he was found to not have affected IC. Stewart was a convicted felon. As such, he was barred from owning MGs. Since he could not have legally purchased one, his "not buying one" had no affect on IC. The government presented no evidence that he intended to sell them in IC, so that argument was a wash too.

    The second law is the NFA, the one that requires the registration and taxation of certain weapons. This is based on Congress' taxation power, which is virtually limitless. This is, on paper anyway, simply a tax law. The registration part is there merely to facilitate the collection of the taxes. There is no IC requirement in this law. Even if you built your own, you would still have to register it and pay the tax to be legal. Stewart did not do this, so he was still in illegal possession of an MG. I do not recall if they bothered to prosecute him under this law or not.

    So, in theory at least, if you live in the 9th Circuit you could send in your form 1 just like you could prior to '86 and possibly get it approved. has that happened? I dunno, but if it had I'm sure we would have heard about it. I think maybe ATF is waiting to find out the results of their appeals before they act.

  7. #27
    Gunco Regular droog's Avatar
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    I for one would be more than happy to pay $200 to build a legal sten.We can only hope this gets heard by SCOTUS and they rule in our favor.

  8. #28
    Gunco Member Rod M1's Avatar
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    I've now of 2 or 3 people that have confirmed that a form 1 has gotten threw. But they think it might have got approved buy mistake or something. I shire would like to see a scan of the approved form 1.

  9. #29
    Gunco Regular droog's Avatar
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    I have heard the same thing and also heard they where revoked or whatever you call it after the screw up was caught.Also some are reporting that the ATF is holding on to some pending a final decision.

  10. #30
    BANNED jpglee1's Avatar
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    he destroyed it.I get sick every time I think about it as he had no kids so I could have possibly ended up with it after my uncles all died off



    Nah Droog...thats what he told everyone...its in a hole somewhere Id bet... I dont know him but thats what I would prolly do.... then everyone would think it was gone...unless he had the slagged parts then ya thats a bummer....


    Start huntin the property w/a metal detector... LOL


    Anyone know if anyone has gotten an approved Form-1 back since Stewart? I hear one guy did for a SEAR but the BATF repealed it and now his lawyer is suing...

    Im not rich enough and I live in CA anyway... .theoretically someone living in NV or AZ could cobble an SMG up from SCRATCH and be OK... I know some people say a parts kit doesnt constitute a gun so it counts as "home made" but I personally think the spirit of the ruling would be for TOTALLY homemade stuff like P.A. Luty's SMGs, or a STEN made from a fence pipe and a car axle where you cobble all the parts outta metal yourself... EVERYTHING.. If I was gonna attempt it, I would make every single part except the BBL, unless I could get a BBL machine setup and working....

    Anyway...thats my .02c

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