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Thread: Pistol or SBR?

  1. #1
    Question Everything... CeeKay's Avatar
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    Default Pistol or SBR?

    I was thinking about a future pistol build with SLAMFIRE51's conversion, but was thinking about putting a "bumper" of sorts on the back end for comfort. Basically, instead of a pistol rear trunnion, I was thinking of keeping the same trunnion and bolting on what would be about a half inch worth of "stock..."

    Would this constitute as a stock and thusly create an SBR?

    Attached is a photoshopped picture of what I was thinking of doing. Original image care of 4thIDvet.


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    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
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    I was thinking of keeping the same trunnion and bolting on what would be about a half inch worth of "stock..."
    OK I'm no expert on this but I know if you have anything on there that will allow a stock to be mount it's a SBR, so an unmodified rear trunion would be a problem.

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    Question Everything... CeeKay's Avatar
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    Yeah, I kinda figured that. Also, it would be kind of a trick to get the rear screw into the trunnion and stock with that shape. The bumper would cover the tang too much to get a screw in.

    I have somewhat of an idea on how to modify a pistol trunnion for a bumper. But still, I would need to know if it constituted as an SBR with an inch-long bumper, or if the back needs to be totally smooth... If it's an SBR just because it has a comfort piece on the back end, then it's a lost cause... I mean, would you rather have an SBR with an inch-long stock, or just throw a folder on it?


    - CK
    Ask questions first; Distance? Windage? Elevation?
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    ""...when you capture spoils from the enemy, they must be used as rewards, so that all your men may have a keen desire to fight, each on his own account""

    - Sun Tzu
    ------------
    "A petty thief is put in jail. A great brigand becomes a ruler of a State."
    - Zhuang Zi

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    Gunsmith Fritz's Avatar
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    It is very borderline. There are manufacturers out there making winchester based lever action "pistols" that have about half of a buttstock on them and they are classified as a pistol by the ATF.


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    GuncoHolic kernelkrink's Avatar
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    What would the "comfort piece" do? Sit against your shoulder? If so, SBR. If not, not an SBR.

    Fed law defines a rifle and a handgun, basically a handgun is a firearm with a single grip designed to be fired with one hand. A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder.

    Coils, there is no Federal requirement for a handgun to be unable to accept a stock, here's an ATF tech letter saying it's OK to use a standard rifle type buffer tube on an AR15 handgun as long as the stock itself is removed and isn't handy: http://www.jcweaponry.com/images/ar15/BB.JPG


    Any number of Browning HiPowers, Artillery Lugers, and Mauser "broomhandles" came from the factory with stock attachment points. While most are C&R exempt from the SBR regs with an ORIGINAL stock, a repro stock will still make them an SBR. Not a problem owning the handgun by itself, even with the stock lugs on them.

    Without getting too far into the TC Supreme Court decision, the Supremes basically set forth a legal test on whether a "group of parts" constituted an SBR or not. There are three ways to stay legal (re stock attachment point) with an AK handgun build:

    1: Use a standard trunnion and have no extra stocks around that can fit into it without mods.

    2: Have a second bbl setup for it that is legal length, along with a stock that will fit. You can swap out between handgun and rifle configs, just never assemble the stock with the short bbl. A screw build would be ideal for this, just make sure it started out life as a handgun build.

    3: Modify the handgun so an unmodified stock cannot be attached.

    Most people go with #3 since builders tend to have many extra parts laying about, and it is an extra CYA move in case #2 exists but the parts are out of your immediate control. But 1 and 2 are also legal.

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    Question Everything... CeeKay's Avatar
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    The bumper would just be for comfort, so that you can hip-fire it without a jagged square chunk or sling post digging into yourself every time you fire it. Also, it's mostly for looks...

    Plus, at that length there'd really be no possibility of firing it (at least comfortably) from your shoulder... Also, there would be no beneficial way to use the sights from your shoulder either...

    Thanks, Krink! I owe ya one!


    - CK
    Ask questions first; Distance? Windage? Elevation?
    ------------
    ""...when you capture spoils from the enemy, they must be used as rewards, so that all your men may have a keen desire to fight, each on his own account""

    - Sun Tzu
    ------------
    "A petty thief is put in jail. A great brigand becomes a ruler of a State."
    - Zhuang Zi

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    GuncoHolic BigAl's Avatar
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    FAC used to sell a wood piece that fit into a trunnion for sling attachment. IIRC, it projected about 1.5" -2" beyond the rear of the rifle. basically you could use a regular type rear trunnion and cut down a fixed stock to a 2" nub, mill a horizontal 1/4" slot in it to loop your sling through, or thread ina uncle mikes type swivel into the end...

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    Gunco Rookie hagar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeeKay View Post
    I was thinking about a future pistol build with SLAMFIRE51's conversion, but was thinking about putting a "bumper" of sorts on the back end for comfort. Basically, instead of a pistol rear trunnion, I was thinking of keeping the same trunnion and bolting on what would be about a half inch worth of "stock..."

    Would this constitute as a stock and thusly create an SBR?
    I think you could be asking for trouble if you do that. It doesn't mean you would automatically get busted for it but if someone wanted to cause trouble for you it would give them a good excuse.

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