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Thread: FA FGC AN A SA RECIVEL LEGAL OR NOT?

  1. #11
    Gunco Member kkcalvin's Avatar
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    That's the biggest problem we face. There is no clear definition of readily "restorable." Either congress or supreme court should define this in very clear terms.

  2. #12
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I agree. obviously there is some guide lines that needs to in place. Thompson encores are sold as a set with a rifle barrel and stock to go with the pistol frame and short barrel. they were rulled legal. now there is a case were a guy is packing a short barrel and a stock in one in the same case. makes me think big time. all the kits I see for converting 1911 45 pistols into rifles same thing. convert your pistol into a sa rifle in seconds with a 16" barrel and butt stock all packed in the same case. how many of those foregin 1911 pistol copys are getting 922 compliance parts added. wouldnt that now be considerd a pistol gripped imported assult rifle with a Hi cap MAG ?????

    Intent laws are what bugs me. arrest the crimnials not suspected criminals. I always felt I would need to be actually breaking the law not thinking about breaking the the law. A malfunctiong fire arm is not intent it is a broken gun. If I was non mechanicaly inclined like thousands of gun owners the last thing I would want to do is take a AK or A AR in for repair of a bad disconector or trigger that was to touchey. after the recent case in wisconsin. I suspect there is way more than meets the eye and the guy is likely a scum bag BUT the facts of the case should be only considerd not his previous crimes. was the Gun purposly made to double and or did he continue to fire a malfunctiong weapon. if yes then he it guilty. If this is a gun that suddendly started doubling or slam firing and had correct legal parts then he should be inniocent. a boken disconector spring shouldnt be a 10 year jail sentance.
    If rulings are going to be made like that, then every AK owner needs a spring loaded firing pin as comercial ammo or hand loads with standard rifle primers can and will slam fire.

  3. #13
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Right. How long does it really take to push out a 16.25 inch Romy barrel and press in a shorty AMD65 barrel? Certainly less than 4-6 hours, and no need for highly specialized tools or skills. Intent to create an SBR through owning a Romy G AND an AMD65 kit?

    As Olofson showed, if you have someone in the Federal system with a hard-on for you, it doesn't matter what you actually have. They just need a "friendly" judge.
    I know guys who have screw builds that regularly swap from pistol to rifle buy just changing the entire trunion/barrel assemblys adding a stock/trunion, the recivers have all the 922 parts so they dont have to sweat parts count when a rifle. the recivers are regiserd as pistol and it was there intent to be able to convert legaly to rifle all along. if they were stupid enough to add a stock and keep the short barrel they would have a SBR in seconds. for that mattter a fiber force dragonov style stock will likely bolt to to any pistol build with the pistol trunion left in place secured only buy the grip screw and the tang screw omitted. takes about 20 second to remove the old PG and add the fiber force stock in place of it.
    guys in californa are skirting the law with mag releases that require a tool ( a pin on a key chain or bullet tip to release mags in AK,s, takes less than 2 seconds to release the mag. the reasoning is that a tool (even a bullet can be called a tool) is recuired to release a fixed mag. it should also be pointed out that the manufactures of these fixed mag kits say that there is no ruleing in californa or the ATF to make these legal.

    YIKES

  4. #14
    Gunco Member kkcalvin's Avatar
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    Now that I think of it I think that "readily convertible" applies only to machine gun laws. Not too long ago I read a court decision after someone was arrested and charged by ATF with possesion of a SBR because he had one of those single shot rifles I think it was Thompson Encore with short and long barrels and all of the other parts to convert it to pistol or a rifle. Court ruled that since he had all the parts for both then his intent was to assemble it only in a legal configuration.

  5. #15
    Indian Admin Winn R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kernelkrink View Post
    A MAC11NINE semi auto pistol has a bolt in it identical to the full auto one minus the notches for the sear to hold it back. In about 30 SECONDS you could pop the takedown pin and peen the firing pin in the extended position. Drop the bolt on a full mag and it will empty it, you just can't start and stop it with the trigger. Commercially produced and sold for 25 years+ without ATF ruling it "easily restored".
    Kernel -- Do you know which of the Mac's Mitch Werbell was charged with?

    The case produced the celebrated video of easy full auto conversions including the shoelace one!
    There is no nonsense so errant that it cannot be made the creed of the vast majority by adequate governmental action. -- Bertrand Russell


    "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Robert J. Hanlon

  6. #16
    Gunco Good ole boy kernelkrink's Avatar
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    IIRC, the case involved their open bolt semi auto MAC10, like any open bolt semi one simply disables or removes the disconnector and you get full auto. Pretty much what eliminated them from the market.

  7. #17
    Angry White Man RetVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjohnson View Post
    As Olofson showed, if you have someone in the Federal system with a hard-on for you, it doesn't matter what you actually have. They just need a "friendly" judge.
    That's it in a nutshell. If and when "they" want to burn you they will. If all else fails the child pornography the "authorities" plant on your PC will suffice.
    " The world is a very dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who do nothing about them." - Albert Einstein, 1879-1955


  8. #18
    Gunco Veteran Frogman's Avatar
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    Now that we have a fire going what are we going to do? Turn political, bury out guns or talk with the local police officer and see if he's a gun grabber or second amendment fan?
    If he's a good guy, see if you could feel him out about the local BATF guys. All wars are local - in your turf stay informed. Move your eggs if you think they might get broken. We
    all have different circumstances. For some of us hard choices are ahead.

  9. #19
    Indian Admin Winn R's Avatar
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    I had a very interesting conversation with a clever young lady yesterday afternoon who is a lawyer with the federal government and works for an 11th district court judge.

    It turns out that the decisions by federal judges are based on precedent, but not precedent throughout the country, only precedent in their own district. This is why in the ninth District, the area which includes the fruits and nuts of California, the decisions seem so bizarre compared with the remainder of the country.

    The Supreme Court decisions trump everything else of course. But in deciding the fine points it's quite possible that different areas of the country will have different federal law applied.
    There is no nonsense so errant that it cannot be made the creed of the vast majority by adequate governmental action. -- Bertrand Russell


    "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Robert J. Hanlon

  10. #20
    Gunco Good ole boy kernelkrink's Avatar
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    Exactly, one of the main considerations before the Supreme Court when deciding whether or not to take a case is differing interpretations/precedents among the various circuits.

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