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Thread: How much to "dummy" a dummy gun?

  1. #1
    Gunco Member MustangO3's Avatar
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    Default How much to "dummy" a dummy gun?

    I have been asked to build some dummy AKs for use as handling trainers. They want them to look, feel, function check and have all the moving parts so they can assemble, disassemble etc, but not fire. My thoughts are, weld both ends of the barrel, remove the pin and weld up the hole, don't put in FA parts and as long as the reciever is riveted or welded to the trunion, it is not a gun.
    The reciever is the main part I am wondering on. If it is fully assembled, do I have to do something to it so it is just a dummy that I can just give or sell, as opposed to a firearm that needs to be transfered?

    Also, anyone have about 15 crappy, shot out, mismatched kits they want to unload?

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    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    If you're going to do this, I'd write the bafte for their guidelines. I personally would tell your buyer to look into buying comercial dummy guns as thats the easiest way to keep my butt out of prison. A dummy gun that will accept all parts with only a welded barrel might of been ok 30 years ago, but not today.

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    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
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    I agree get in touch with the BATFE, mainly the receiver part, I think most of the other stuff you mentioned should be good.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

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    Gunco Member MustangO3's Avatar
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    Sounds good. Thanks

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    Gunco Maniac sjohnson's Avatar
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    Yup, since the receiver IS the rifle, no matter how much you dummy it up, if everything is hung off what the ATF considers a receiver, it's a firearm under their jurisdiction.
    I have a daughter. I tell her, "911 is what you dial after you're raped. 1911 is what you should have before they try."

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    Gunco Member MustangO3's Avatar
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    Just got of the phone with the BATFE and their mid level tech guy. He was very knowelegable, and polite, FYI. They are having their "really smart" tech guy get back to me. The general idea is that there is possibly a way to do it off a home made reciever.

    If you use a flat with holes in it, as soon as you bend it, it's a gun so that is a no go.

    However, the way we are thinking of it is, weld up the barrel and bolt, rivet/weld (read permenantly attach with a few extra welds in addition to the rivets so the reciever would be destroyed if you tried to take it apart) the trunion and barrel to the bent tube WITHOUT the holes, and it is not, and has not been a gun. Then you can drill the holes and finish the build. The reciever and demilled barrel are now one piece and it cannot be made into a gun.

    That is the theory we are "stink testing" right now and if their tech guy says it is good (in writing) that's that. I'll keep you posted.

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    Question Everything... CeeKay's Avatar
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    There's no restriction on color, or red paint on the end of the barrel??
    Ask questions first; Distance? Windage? Elevation?
    ------------
    ""...when you capture spoils from the enemy, they must be used as rewards, so that all your men may have a keen desire to fight, each on his own account""

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    "A petty thief is put in jail. A great brigand becomes a ruler of a State."
    - Zhuang Zi

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    Gunco Maniac sjohnson's Avatar
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    I'll wager that he says "Once you drill the holes, it's a receiver." New DEWATs (what I think you're describing as what you want to build) are not currently allowed.

    There are a number of weld build AK's that have been showcased on these forums, some of which have been built using cold steel bent blanks (no holes, you have to drill them). They all have receivers. Once the flat is bent and the holes drilled, it's a receiver - you can bank on that.

    The ATF doesn't care about how much or little the barrel is destroyed in the process, once you have the features of a receiver, it becomes a receiver.
    I have a daughter. I tell her, "911 is what you dial after you're raped. 1911 is what you should have before they try."

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    GuncoHolic kernelkrink's Avatar
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    Couple questions: Why do you need it to be legally a "non gun"? Dewatting the rifle by welding a plug in the chamber, cutting the tip off the FP etc. will make it a safe non-firing demo model that will allow someone to familiarize themself with the design. If the final owner of the pieces do the bending the receivers are theirs, not yours so no transfer takes place, you're just helping them with their builds. I dopn't think you're gonna get a bent ateel receiver approved, all the "dummy guns" I've seen either use a plastic or potmetal frame that wouldn't survive live fire, or a solid receiver that prevents original parts from being fitted.

    Why not buy a commercial replica non-gun? Dunno how close they are as far as internal parts but you should be able to modify it to take an original FCG if needed. @ $237 they are about the price of a kit, for 15 I'm sure they would offer a discount.

    Amazon.com: AK-47 Assault Rifle with Wood Stock Non Firing Replica Gun: Everything Else

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