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Thread: legal or ilegal?

  1. #11
    Gunco Veteran Markp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiroone View Post
    My understanding on this is, you may build a receiver and contruct what would otherwise be legal weapon in your state,but it must not be sold or transfered to another unless you are a licensed manufacturer and pay the appropraite FET.
    It is pretty clear cut unlawful on a few different levels
    Not quite, but that certainly would be the safest method.

    There are different rules for licensees vs non-licensees. Obviously the Feds believe that they have infinite jurisdiction via the commerce clause. The state laws are what they are...

    It's questionable if one could sell a rifle face to face within a state without marking it. I wouldn't risk it to be the test case that's for sure, but that does not make it illegal.

    If someone believes this is wrong please cite the regulations that are being violated (eg. 27 CFR 478.29 or 27 CFR 478.30) because I could not find anything that would prevent a non-licensee from doing this.

    Mark

  2. #12
    Gunco Veteran patjsimpson's Avatar
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    I am not sure it is illegal but I am saying that is to grey for me to do. ;-)

    I love my freedom to much to get that close to the line.

  3. #13
    Gunco Regular bubbamauser's Avatar
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    I have always been under the impression that I can build myself a legal firearm and if I get tired of it somewhere down the road I can sell it.

    I dont have the statutes handy but I am pretty sure they support this.

    Most of the guys here have been doing this much longer than me so I want to hear your opinions and the actual wording of the law. None of us want to violate the law.

  4. #14
    Gunco Veteran patjsimpson's Avatar
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    The question here is in regards to selling an receiver or gun built on a receiver bent from a receiver flat. Buying a Nodak receiver assembling on a nodak receiver and then realizing down the road you want to sell it is one thing but building a receiver or gun built on a receiver flat and selling it has been discussed alot and agreed that it is a grey area or even a no no depending on the thread.

  5. #15
    Gunco Maniac sjohnson's Avatar
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    There are many gray areas, even some where State and Federal law are at odds. Consider South Dakota law:
    No person shall possess a firearm on which the manufacturer’s serial number has been changed, altered, removed or obliterated. This does not apply if the owner or possessor of the firearms has applied for a new serial number with the director of criminal investigation.
    So, South Dakota *seems* to allow me to remove a trunnion from certain imported AK-patent firearms and replace it with another as long as I've applied for a new serial number. But, (some will argue) Federal law does not.

    My point is, unless you choose to retain legal counsel and work the system, whether or not you may sell a non-marked firearm is an open question. One that will never be answered anywhere other than a court of law.
    I have a daughter. I tell her, "911 is what you dial after you're raped. 1911 is what you should have before they try."

  6. #16
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Well a serial number is not required for non-commercial home builds. If the builder / owner dies their family can take possession which would be a transfer. Commercial firearms made before 1968 do not require serial numbers. Home builds don't have a date on them. if it's not built to sell or transfer and it's legal then it's may be possible to sell and transfer it later.

    As far as removing the trunnion I've seen two odd ATF letters on the subjecct. The first one stated a "Chinese" AK and asked about removing the trunnion for "service/repair". The question may have on purpose not mentioned the fact that the serial number was on the trunnion but the response was that it was okay to to remove the trunnion from the sheet metal for service. The second letter is maybe more interesting. Somebody asked about changing the serialized trunnion. The response was that the serialized trunnion could be changed but a pre-ban firearm would lose it's pre-ban status. Of course the trunnion can not be changed for the purpose of changing the serial number. The maker and importer information can legally be removed but not the serial number, so I doubt transferring a home build requires all of that information on it.

  7. #17
    Gunco Veteran patjsimpson's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone is really debating transfering to a family member at death. At question is building on a flat and selling them with out adding serial number.

  8. #18
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Well a private build can't be built for purpose of selling it or making it for somebody else. It doesn't require serial number. It is legal to sell, give away or transfer ownership as long as it wasn't built for that purpose. Even with factory firearms it's the licensed manufacture that has to add may markings such as name, location, caliber, importer (if imported) and a serial number. The serial number is the only marking that can't be removed from licensed built firearm. A firearm is a piece of property and not all legally owned ones have serial numbers.

  9. #19
    Gunco Regular bubbamauser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allesennogwat View Post
    Well a private build can't be built for purpose of selling it or making it for somebody else. It doesn't require serial number. It is legal to sell, give away or transfer ownership as long as it wasn't built for that purpose. Even with factory firearms it's the licensed manufacture that has to add may markings such as name, location, caliber, importer (if imported) and a serial number. The serial number is the only marking that can't be removed from licensed built firearm. A firearm is a piece of property and not all legally owned ones have serial numbers.
    This is what I have always thought. it is a piece of "property"

  10. #20
    Gunco Rookie beerthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
    The OP has been "asking for an opinion" on a lot of boards with the same exact post.
    Are you some kind of a stalker or something?

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