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Thread: Selling a manufactured AK?

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    GuncoHolic yosuthnmasa's Avatar
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    Default Selling a manufactured AK?

    I know I've come across this somewhere, but can't remember the specifics as to the legalities of selling a manufactured AK. Meaning, if I were to legally build an AK with all of the compliance parts and markings, would it be illegal to sell it to another individual. I am still working on my first and have no plans of selling it, but am curious about what legal issues one would be up against.

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    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    The law says you can legally sell a firearm to another individual. FTF requires no FFL.

    The law says that you can legally build a firearm, provided it is not intended for sale.

    You need a certain license for making firearms for sale. Class-2 I want to say, can't be sure. There's different licenses for different building endeavors. I think you can even build machine guns as post-'86 dealer samples or LEO only sales, but forget what classification of building license you need.

    Nothing says specifically that you cannot sell a firearm. Based on the above statements, you should be OK.

    Now, if you built 20 of them and put 19 of them on gunbroker, that wouldn't be cool. Again, its the whole "engaged in the business of selling or making firearms" verbage.

    Check the ATF site for more info. It will be best to call a local ATF agent asking for clarification. If you can articulate it to pose a yes/no question, you can have something in writing that says you're OK, in case anyone ever asks.

    OTOH, if you buy an FFL receiver such as Vulcan, OOW, Global, then you have a full-fledged firearm and can sell that at any time. Just like an AR-15 lower receiver. Or you can add the other components, make a "complete" rifle, and sell it.

    Again, if you "engage in the business" of making - OR SELLING - firearms then you gotta get FFL licensed for it, but if you only buy/sell rifles as an individual, you can do so.

    There are limits - I want to say my friend who did a lot of buying/selling a few years ago read in State law that if an individual sells 10 or more rifles in a year they need an FFL, but 9 requires no FFL. That's in NC, and word of mouth from a friend who looked it up.

    Call ATF, ask for clarification. You are PROBABLY in the clear and OK to do so... this all makes several assumptions.

    I should add, that IF you do sell something, make a paper trail to CYA - have the buyer sign a piece of paper saying that he bought the gun from you, saying he can legally buy it, etc. That way if the police ever come knocking, asking why you sold a gun to a terrorist, you can at least point them down to the next person to whom you sold it. FWIW

    hth,
    - Jerry

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    hotbarrel's Avatar
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    I should add, that IF you do sell something, make a paper trail to CYA - have the buyer sign a piece of paper saying that he bought the gun from you, saying he can legally buy it, etc. That way if the police ever come knocking, asking why you sold a gun to a terrorist, you can at least point them down to the next person to whom you sold it. FWIW
    this is very good advise. I realy would sell it through an FFL too, again just to CYA . let the buyer pay the small fee, and then it is another fact in your favor that you did evrything you could to be on the up and up.
    ALSO, I would keep copies of any recipts proveing the U.S. parts count!!! this way if any future owner takes out a U.S. part,, and someone comes knocking at your door as the builder you can prove it was proper when it left you!!! you have no controle over someone removeing a U.S. part and replaceing it with a noe U.S... If ANYTHING happens with the gun they Will come back to you, you better have EVERYTHING in proper order.
    I would NEVER sell any gun to anybody without going through an FFL.

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    GuncoHolic scubadvr's Avatar
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    I think that is all good advice. I would also suggest that if you are into building, keep a log book on your builds. Specifically, mark in the book after you do some significant step and if the weapon is not complete, mark the date at write the build is still work in process. Maybe even an outline or check off steps that need to be completed. In this way you can explain why you may have a weapon that has a bayo lug still on, or brake that still has to be permanently fixed, etc. I am not saying that will get you off, but that certainly shows a good faith effort toward compliance as the job progresses. As a lawyer, I like it when my clients can show that even if the are techincally in violation of the law, the do not have the all important intent to be violating the law. Jack
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    GuncoHolic yosuthnmasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotbarrel
    this is very good advise. I realy would sell it through an FFL too, again just to CYA . let the buyer pay the small fee, and then it is another fact in your favor that you did evrything you could to be on the up and up.
    I've never transferred a gun through an FFL that I already owned. I always have a written agreement that I ask them to sign along with some personal info. But going through an FFL seems like it would help CYA alot better especially if you built the firearm. I'm sure the FFL's paperwork would hold up a helluva lot better in court than my written agreement.

    I guess getting a license to manufacture weapons and sell them is a real PITA? Does it follow similar guidelines as let's say my dealer who has a Pawnshop type FFL? They have to have a storefront, business, etc...?

    "One of these days," I keep telling my self. When I have the time and money it(obtaining an FFL) "looks" like it would be a nice business venture and would sure aid in the betterment of my collection! But, then again there's all that paperwork, laws,etc,etc, etc...

    So do you guys keep all your receipts for your U.S. compliance parts for each build? I just got my GB Tapco G2 trigger set in, but didn't get a receipt. Wonder if that's something I can still do?


    *edited to add quote

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    AT very least make a note of it in your paperwork of what it is and when you put it in and ware it came from, it could not hurt to even put a note as to why you have no recipt. laywers love paperwork.. heck at my job if it aint writen down it didnt happen.

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    GuncoHolic scubadvr's Avatar
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    The one thing you do not want to do is to sell a weapon to a person that the law says can not own one. Going through a FFL which requires a backgoround (instant check) makes sure only those that can legally own a weapon purchases a weapon.
    Be sure to check out:
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    There are also state laws to contend with.
    Here, all transfers must go through a FFL, period.
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by yosuthnmasa
    I've never transferred a gun through an FFL that I already owned. I always have a written agreement that I ask them to sign along with some personal info. But going through an FFL seems like it would help CYA alot better especially if you built the firearm. I'm sure the FFL's paperwork would hold up a helluva lot better in court than my written agreement.

    I guess getting a license to manufacture weapons and sell them is a real PITA? Does it follow similar guidelines as let's say my dealer who has a Pawnshop type FFL? They have to have a storefront, business, etc...?

    "One of these days," I keep telling my self. When I have the time and money it(obtaining an FFL) "looks" like it would be a nice business venture and would sure aid in the betterment of my collection! But, then again there's all that paperwork, laws,etc,etc, etc...

    So do you guys keep all your receipts for your U.S. compliance parts for each build? I just got my GB Tapco G2 trigger set in, but didn't get a receipt. Wonder if that's something I can still do?


    *edited to add quote
    I dont think i'd worry about a receipt on the G2, they are stamped "TAPCO USA G2" on all three parts.

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    Gunco Member JA545's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hcpookie
    The law says that you can legally build a firearm, provided it is not intended for sale.

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a7
    Where did you come up with "intended". It says "not for sale" which means the firearm you make can't be sold, ever.

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